I agree with you that every amp sounds different from every other amp, due to hundreds of design decisions and thousands of interactions among components, many of them non-linear.
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Old School vs. New School Amplification
- Thread starter jazztonebass
- Start date
I agree with you that every amp sounds different from every other amp, due to hundreds of design decisions and thousands of interactions among components, many of them non-linear.
My position is affected more by all the lousy consumer grade electronics and appliances that have failed long before they should have or failed because the manufacture was counting on planned obsolescense to keep their revenue stream flowing.
I can't even count how many expensive items have died prematurely due to failures in the board that were simply not cost effective to repair.
Our society has been trained to accept failure, to be afraid to buy a new product without an extended warranty, to accept disposable consumer electronics as normal.
I can't avoid buying certain items that are built with offshore labor, like Computers, but I do so reluctantly.
When it comes to buying bass and guitar amps, I do have better options, supporting highly respected custom builders who are absolutely dedicated to excellence.
I can't even count how many expensive items have died prematurely due to failures in the board that were simply not cost effective to repair.
Our society has been trained to accept failure, to be afraid to buy a new product without an extended warranty, to accept disposable consumer electronics as normal.
I can't avoid buying certain items that are built with offshore labor, like Computers, but I do so reluctantly.
When it comes to buying bass and guitar amps, I do have better options, supporting highly respected custom builders who are absolutely dedicated to excellence.
And yet, again, the reliability of amplifiers (as measured by failure rates and need for repair) continues to exponentially improve. Again, your premise makes little sense to me. That being said, I too have purchased some products just due to their 'handmade' or at least uber quality vibe (Monique, Glockenklang, Walter Wood, Thunderfunk, etc.). Beautiful stuff that sounds great. Are they more reliable, more easy to repair, or do they sound better in an absolute sense than the uber quality, current mass produced units I also own..... to me, not at all.
I will again +1 your point that, if budget allows, as has been the case since the beginning of time, I always recommend staying away from the total bargain basement stuff for sure... products that are made primarily to hit the lowest price point possible.
That being said, my primary point in this thread is that a player who eliminates an entire class of product, regardless of what that 'class' is based on (power amp type, power supply type, preamp design, number of knobs, etc., etc.) might very well miss out on the amp of their dreams. Kind of similar to posts I see saying 'I like the sound out 10" speakers', not realizing that there is just as much variance in tonality and performance within 10" driver loaded cabs as there is across cabs with different driver size. Focusing on the most obvious or vivid difference (e.g., power amp design, size of driver, neck through versus bolt on, etc,) is not really the best way to narrow down options IMO and IME.
The great news is, there are more options out there now than ever, and everyone should (and assuming you have enough money, can....)like what they play, and play what they like
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Crap, then those years of electronics training I got in the Navy meant nothing. Too bad. Sorry.
Do you not remember or you not old enough to remember the debates that went on in the 70's and 80's about the difference between tube and solid state?
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I agree with Bob as too,I can't remember seeing anything supporting tubes responsible for odd harmonics and solid state for even harmonics. If anything, it's the opposite primarily because of the circuit topologies commonly attributed to each type of device as much as the device itself.
The most recorded bass amp in history is a funky old Ampeg B-15
If tube amps are such a bad idea, then how come so many high end recording studios still depend on them?
If tube amps are such a bad idea, then how come so many high end recording studios still depend on them?
In a controlled environment like a studio, tube amps like the B-15 make sense for those wanting that tonal color. They make less sense when the rigors of the road come in to play.
And... nobody said tube amps were a "bad idea". It is you that claims that modern amps are a bad idea- full of compromises, shortcuts and questionable labor practices.
And... nobody said tube amps were a "bad idea". It is you that claims that modern amps are a bad idea- full of compromises, shortcuts and questionable labor practices.
I dug up a guts shot of a twin of my aforementioned crappy old Univox. The build reeks of attention to detail!
Mine didn't have a fancy schmancy Webber speaker in it - just some anonymous thing from Japan's distant past. It also looks like someone bothered re-capping this thing at some point. Mine was full of genuine "vintage" (AKA ancient, failing, super low quality) caps.
Mine didn't have a fancy schmancy Webber speaker in it - just some anonymous thing from Japan's distant past. It also looks like someone bothered re-capping this thing at some point. Mine was full of genuine "vintage" (AKA ancient, failing, super low quality) caps.
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I did not. I was particulary interested in the topic at the time and recall it well, but, in all fairness, I will do some research as my interest has now been rekindled.
Well, I have to admit to misremembering. I had it backwards and, as it turns out, that old theory is just a theory. I found this and it is an interesting read: http://www.gmarts.org/index.php?go=214
What do you think?
Wow, we are all over the place now. Who in the world said tube amps were bad or a bad idea.
Again, every amp sounds different, and the B-15's tone (due as much to the cab/driver as anything else) is a beautiful tone at low volumes for sure.
I agree with Ken - the advantages of modern equipment can't be ignored. Current PC board, SMPS and class D based power amps get practically zero bench time.
Recording and live are two uses that are light years apart in terms of where the design trade offs can be made. If as far as an amp has to travel is from the storage room to a studio and it just has to get loud enough to make a happy noise into a RE-20, yeah, a B-15 is great. As nice as that B-15 sounds - how much would anybody's infatuation remain after lugging it from a parking garage, through the bowels of a hotel, up onto a stage and then back again to the car after a four hour gig?
I used to use tube amps live. No more. Recording - there I'm darn happy with a good DI and a endless mug of coffee.
Recording and live are two uses that are light years apart in terms of where the design trade offs can be made. If as far as an amp has to travel is from the storage room to a studio and it just has to get loud enough to make a happy noise into a RE-20, yeah, a B-15 is great. As nice as that B-15 sounds - how much would anybody's infatuation remain after lugging it from a parking garage, through the bowels of a hotel, up onto a stage and then back again to the car after a four hour gig?
I used to use tube amps live. No more. Recording - there I'm darn happy with a good DI and a endless mug of coffee.
REDDI for the win!!
Lots of wonderful tools out there now to get to where you want to go depending on context for sure. The whole concept of a road worthy but yet studio quality DI with a certain tonality baked in is a wonderful development for sure for many!
While sadly discontinued, the Genz Benz amps certainly fit into this price range. The current Aguilar TH500 is built like a tank, and runs $699.
