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Old School vs. New School Amplification
- Thread starter jazztonebass
- Start date
What a thread 
!!!
Ok I would say it really depends on the design of the amp how "good" it sounds, no matter if it is SS or Tube.
The 2 biggest differences I have experienced:
A all tube amp has a more "solid" low mid to low end, and in most cases a much more alive liquid dynamic response. If you AB, with a SS, the SS will sound pretty likely a bit, hollow weak and dead, you tend to turn the SS up louder. I dont say it is like that, its just very likely that most people will hear it this way. Tubes tend to over emphasize that area a bit.
As for Class D, my experience is:
flat non 3D, squashed, overtone swallowing, brittle in one case very rough in the bass. the worst part was that the overtones were gone. A sample based piano which has already compressed sounds, was so dead that it hurt the ears.
Almost all cheaper class D amps I heard, has at least one of those problems.
Its possible that these filtering problems became solved better by now, there might also be some exceptions.
Bottom line is, its always question of the costs.
What can one expect for $199 ?
These days at this price point, probably not much more than terrible sounding disposable hype gear, I would say. What ever suits you ...
Of course it works, until it does not.
Usually you keep it alive until the warranty is over
Engineering is quite advanced these days
At the moment Im looking for a poweramp for my Read Purity and Im a bit torn between getting a couple of light high quality ClassD Modules for almost 700 bucks making my own 1U 1400W (bridged) power amp, or buying a LAB IPD2400 which is unfortunately not bridgeable and cost 3 times as much ... buts its finished...
Or is it better to go for a older design LAB FP2600 or a Crest 5200Pro, which is double the weight.
Or should I try a Crest Pro light ?
I guess the modules mentioned above, which cost almost double than the Crest Pro light must be better quality.
I think quality has its price tag, but not all high price tags have high quality attached... so keep your eyes and ears open
That special kind of advanced Engineering, which has a defined life span as one of the really important design goals is quite interesting, dont you think ?
!!!Ok I would say it really depends on the design of the amp how "good" it sounds, no matter if it is SS or Tube.
The 2 biggest differences I have experienced:
A all tube amp has a more "solid" low mid to low end, and in most cases a much more alive liquid dynamic response. If you AB, with a SS, the SS will sound pretty likely a bit, hollow weak and dead, you tend to turn the SS up louder. I dont say it is like that, its just very likely that most people will hear it this way. Tubes tend to over emphasize that area a bit.
As for Class D, my experience is:
flat non 3D, squashed, overtone swallowing, brittle in one case very rough in the bass. the worst part was that the overtones were gone. A sample based piano which has already compressed sounds, was so dead that it hurt the ears.
Almost all cheaper class D amps I heard, has at least one of those problems.
Its possible that these filtering problems became solved better by now, there might also be some exceptions.
Bottom line is, its always question of the costs.
What can one expect for $199 ?
These days at this price point, probably not much more than terrible sounding disposable hype gear, I would say. What ever suits you ...
Of course it works, until it does not.
Usually you keep it alive until the warranty is over
Engineering is quite advanced these days
At the moment Im looking for a poweramp for my Read Purity and Im a bit torn between getting a couple of light high quality ClassD Modules for almost 700 bucks making my own 1U 1400W (bridged) power amp, or buying a LAB IPD2400 which is unfortunately not bridgeable and cost 3 times as much ... buts its finished...
Or is it better to go for a older design LAB FP2600 or a Crest 5200Pro, which is double the weight.
Or should I try a Crest Pro light ?
I guess the modules mentioned above, which cost almost double than the Crest Pro light must be better quality.
I think quality has its price tag, but not all high price tags have high quality attached... so keep your eyes and ears open
That special kind of advanced Engineering, which has a defined life span as one of the really important design goals is quite interesting, dont you think ?
Last edited:
YMMV
My favorite Ultralight Poweramp is the QSC PLX1804 It will not bridge but it's 900 watts per side at 4 ohms, is fairly shallow, and will thud. A danr good amp IMO.
My favorite Ultralight Poweramp is the QSC PLX1804 It will not bridge but it's 900 watts per side at 4 ohms, is fairly shallow, and will thud. A danr good amp IMO.
Not all ultralight gear is created equal as I said before. The Yamaha P7000S has a real nasty sound when it clips. The QSC is nice and smooth.
i plan on trying the different Ciare woofers i have > 2-15" , 2-12" , 4-10" and a FaitalPro 18" 18xl1600 to see which ones i like best. i'm also going to try different size combos. i want smooth deep undistorted bass and the Ciare speakers and that FaitalPro give that. i know a guy that has a KT-88 Hiwatt sla 200 he will sell me. i might just buy thgat one and build the 4 input preamp from the Hiwatt schematic i have. i could easly add the preamp section to the slave since all the pot and tube holes are already there. what would be real neat is to buy the slave and then find a DR201 and buy it and use a Ashly xr-1001 electronic crossover to biamp 2 different size woofers.
After having been to electronics and PCB manufacturers all over the globe, I can say with quite some confidence that "import" companies' QC capabilities far exceed anything that you can hope for from a boutique. That's not to say that a given company is leveraging those capabilities, but they exist.
And, if you think that there aren't hands touching the boards and doing work on your $300 chip amps as well, then you are mistaken.
And, if you think that there aren't hands touching the boards and doing work on your $300 chip amps as well, then you are mistaken.
That made me think of a really bad bassplayer, who's also hiding behind the pretense of being original..
Hand-built, point to point wiring. Please let's not return to this. It worked for gear that was never moved or subjected to shock or vibration.
that looks my my old Dynaco 50 watt mono block and old tube tv's we owned in the 60's and 70's that my dad would fix when they broke. my dad still has my grnadmothers 1963 rca color tv that he watches.
Best post in this thread IMO.
Is the envelope MORE important than the timbre?gaffster787 said:
My first amp, an ancient Univox, looked like that.
I was always pleasantly surprised when it wouldn't electrocute me after moving it.
(snip)....
The 2 biggest differences I have experienced:
A all tube amp has a more "solid" low mid to low end, and in most cases a much more alive liquid dynamic response. If you AB, with a SS, the SS will sound pretty likely a bit, hollow weak and dead, you tend to turn the SS up louder. I dont say it is like that, its just very likely that most people will hear it this way. Tubes tend to over emphasize that area a bit.
As for Class D, my experience is:
flat non 3D, squashed, overtone swallowing, brittle in one case very rough in the bass. the worst part was that the overtones were gone. A sample based piano which has already compressed sounds, was so dead that it hurt the ears.
Almost all cheaper class D amps I heard, has at least one of those problems.
Its possible that these filtering problems became solved better by now, there might also be some exceptions.
Bottom line is, its always question of the costs.
What can one expect for $199 ?
These days at this price point, probably not much more than terrible sounding disposable hype gear, I would say. What ever suits you ...
Of course it works, until it does not.
Usually you keep it alive until the warranty is over
Engineering is quite advanced these days
At the moment Im looking for a poweramp for my Read Purity and Im a bit torn between getting a couple of light high quality ClassD Modules for almost 700 bucks making my own 1U 1400W (bridged) power amp, or buying a LAB IPD2400 which is unfortunately not bridgeable and cost 3 times as much ... buts its finished...
Or is it better to go for a older design LAB FP2600 or a Crest 5200Pro, which is double the weight.
Or should I try a Crest Pro light ?
I guess the modules mentioned above, which cost almost double than the Crest Pro light must be better quality.
I think quality has its price tag, but not all high price tags have high quality attached... so keep your eyes and ears open
That special kind of advanced Engineering, which has a defined life span as one of the really important design goals is quite interesting, dont you think ?
God help us. These are the kind of massive generalizations, holding NOTHING constant (preamp voicing, power levels, hi passing, cabinet used, setting, volume level, bass used, player, etc., etc.) that lead to many TBers who have not had a chance to play a lot of amps and rigs to adopt these views. Pretty much disagree with everything in the post
While I don't subscribe to FFTT's position that all tube, PTP, hand crafted amps are inherently better, more reliable and superior sounding to today's more modern amps, I do admire the reverence for his Father's point of view on the matter. He has made several references to his Dad's perspective and it is clear that his point of view was shaped by the Father/Son experience. This touches my heart.
That being said, over-romanticizing the past can cloud your vision of the future. I live in a 200 year old farmhouse with hand-hewn beams and a stone foundation that was laid by hand. It is full of charm and patina but the reality is that it requires a tremendous amount of work to keep up and it is completely inefficient in many regards. My wife and I love it with our hearts but hate it with our heads. Our wallets aren't happy either. Likewise, the rotary phone had a certain analog charm but my iphone is a better tool.
I love old school amps myself. If money, logistics, and practicality were no object, surely I would play vintage SVT's and the like. They have a unique sound that is neither better or worse. They are just another color on the sonic palette.
That being said, over-romanticizing the past can cloud your vision of the future. I live in a 200 year old farmhouse with hand-hewn beams and a stone foundation that was laid by hand. It is full of charm and patina but the reality is that it requires a tremendous amount of work to keep up and it is completely inefficient in many regards. My wife and I love it with our hearts but hate it with our heads. Our wallets aren't happy either. Likewise, the rotary phone had a certain analog charm but my iphone is a better tool.
I love old school amps myself. If money, logistics, and practicality were no object, surely I would play vintage SVT's and the like. They have a unique sound that is neither better or worse. They are just another color on the sonic palette.
God help us. These are the kind of massive generalizations, holding NOTHING constant (preamp voicing, power levels, hi passing, cabinet used, setting, volume level, bass used, player, etc., etc.) that lead to many TBers who have not had a chance to play a lot of amps and rigs to adopt these views. Pretty much disagree with everything in the post
Thrust me, I played a lot of different gear, what I described is not e generalization thats what I observed,
and interestingly it was in most cases not only me hearing it this way...
Take a Glock HR and a All Tube amp, you will hear the same things, I bet...
My bad I forgot to state that the cab is quite transparent and clear sounding, the basses also.
All Tube, SS like the HRII and Class D do sound different, different character different reacting, if one does not hear that, then if he must be deaf...
I think he means that you misread, misinterpreted or misunderstood something you read somewhere.
