Only $2,000 to improve your amp's performance

[lomo]

Philistine.
Never mix an Italian cheese with French wine. Which of course begs the question as to which fine English wine would best accompany Stilton.

Port is the onlhy answer

 

[Mr. Foxen]

Scotland?

Scots make whisky, Irish make whiskey.

 

[Marley's Ghost]

I have intentionally avoided this thread and have not read all the posts. But didn't we do this about 2 years ago and it ended up sending Jon Herrera from BP running for the hills? I guess all one has to do is start a thread called "$nnn power xxxx" and sit back and watch it get torn apart like a steak in the lions cage.

As others have suggested, scientific double blind testing is the only way to solve this. An poor BB has to be like the guy with the mop at the peep show.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Or haggis

Now there's good eatin'!

Scots make whisky, Irish make whiskey.

Glad someone else knows what they're talking about!

 

[BadJazz]

Scots make whisky, Irish make whiskey.

*tumbleweeds*

 

[Bassflute]

I never mentioned anything about sending clips over the internet. And in order to compare the sound files bit-by-bit, they have to be in a completely uncompressed WAV format (libsndfile only works with WAV files). An uncompressed WAV file picks up everything the microphone detects without altering it at all. And of course the recording would be done with a suitable interface, not just the line-in on your computer. Speakers would not be a factor as the same speakers would be used in both the test cases.

I hate to cut people up on forums, but you, my friend, seem to have little to no understanding of how scientific experiments work.

I'm a musician, not a scientist.

I have a vague notion, that's why I was hoping somebody scientifically credible would do it, like Bob, since no one here seems to believe trained musicians.

So who is this John guy people are talking about?

Cheers,
Cameron

 

[Bassflute]

Instead of demanding that others substantiate your seemingly impossible claims, why don't you hire a lab to test the cable for unknown, un-wirelike properties, Cameron?

I didn't demand anything, I was asking you to test it because you were the one most vociferously claiming it was impossible for it to work, ridiculing me for claiming that it did, a little bit, and that I was hearing things that didn't exist. And I figured that you had access to proper testing equipment at work, and no shortage of amplifiers to test it on. I also thought you might be interested and somewhat open minded about it, but obviously not.

So, I'm just curious what causes conditions that we musicians call 'dirty power', making signals lose power, fluctuate, be noisy as hell, and sometimes cause amps to shut down completely? I recently had my system shut down because of this. If the power supply in an amp moderates the power so well, why does this still get through the signal chain to the output? And why do most professional sound companies use power conditioners in their racks if they are so totally useless as some people here claim? And if power conditioners work, why wouldn't a power cable influence the sound in a similar way if they were constructed to deal with these situations?

Just curious; I'm asking a serious question, there's no need for ridicule.

Cheers,
Cameron

 

[MikeBass]

we used 3 different setups.

1st setup:

-wall outlet
-Guitar amplifier
-cable tester that produces a test tone at +4 (this keeps everything consistant)
-ESP power cable
-Standard power cable

2nd Setup

-added an extension cord and power strip
-everything else the same

3rd Setup

-Switch out the test tone with a guitar

All these setups we used an RTA meter, SPL meter, and our ears. 1 person changed the cables, 2 people listened. RTA scopes the two cables to be different. SPL meter scopes the two cables to be the same.

Maybe I missed it someplace.
The 2 people who listened heard what?
The RTA read what differences?

Maybe someone missed my post.
But I DID this test and the results were there was no discernible difference that either listeners or players could tell.
No one could positively identify which cable was which in any accurate capacity.

Sure random guess provided for some accurate accounts of which was which. But when asked for a completely honest answer, no one could positively say that there was a difference.

But I guess it doesn't matter. Or maybe you missed my post.

We used different players.
Had them play the same line/lick with each cable.
Even did a "control" of sorts and let them know which was which.

And to have fun, I never switched them out at one pass, but said I did. The results were pretty much the same as they were when I did switch them out.

The end result was save your money.

I'd be happy to do it again if I had a cable.
And record the event on video if need be.

Some say it works. If it does in your mind, then it's worth every penny.

 

[Scottgun]

About a year ago, we had the ole:

"My gold cable sounds better!"
"No it doesn't!"
"Yes it does!"
"ABX it!"
"F--- you!"

Then I left the forums for about a year. Today I come back and here it is like I haven't missed a thing.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

About a year ago, we had the ole:

"My gold cable sounds better!"
"No it doesn't!"
"Yes it does!"
"ABX it!"
"F--- you!"

Then I left the forums for about a year. Today I come back and here it is like I haven't missed a thing.

In the ensuing year those who are admittedly uneducated in how gear actually works beyond 'you plug it in' could have done the unthinkable, read a book or two, to advance their understanding of how the tools with which they make a living function. I recall an offer being made at that time to send the magic cable to a qualified third party for proper testing. A year later that hasn't happened either. Tune in again a year from now, I'm sure the situation will have stayed the same.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

And if power conditioners work, why wouldn't a power cable influence the sound in a similar way if they were constructed to deal with these situations?

Well, for one thing, there is apparently not one bit of evidence to suggest that these cables are constructed to act anything like power conditioners [EDIT: or regulators, as Implosion and Ken suggest, which I'm guessing is what you mean]. (Leaving aside the question of whether they would do a very good job of it if they were.) So turn it around: why would a cable be believed to influence the sound if there's no plausible rationale for how it could, plenty of plausible rationale for why it couldn't, and no real evidence that it ever has?

 

[Implosion]

I didn't demand anything, I was asking you to test it because you were the one most vociferously claiming it was impossible for it to work, ridiculing me for claiming that it did, a little bit, and that I was hearing things that didn't exist. And I figured that you had access to proper testing equipment at work, and no shortage of amplifiers to test it on. I also thought you might be interested and somewhat open minded about it, but obviously not.

If the cable would do what ESP says it does (on the borderline of renewing laws of physics) wouldn't companies such as Genral Electric be rushing to ESP's office with a trunk load of money to buy the rights for the product?

So, I'm just curious what causes conditions that we musicians call 'dirty power', making signals lose power, fluctuate, be noisy as hell, and sometimes cause amps to shut down completely? I recently had my system shut down because of this. If the power supply in an amp moderates the power so well, why does this still get through the signal chain to the output? And why do most professional sound companies use power conditioners in their racks if they are so totally useless as some people here claim? And if power conditioners work, why wouldn't a power cable influence the sound in a similar way if they were constructed to deal with these situations?

Professional sound companies use voltage regulators which are not the same thing as power conditioners.

 

[KJung]

I didn't demand anything, I was asking you to test it because you were the one most vociferously claiming it was impossible for it to work, ridiculing me for claiming that it did, a little bit, and that I was hearing things that didn't exist. And I figured that you had access to proper testing equipment at work, and no shortage of amplifiers to test it on. I also thought you might be interested and somewhat open minded about it, but obviously not.

So, I'm just curious what causes conditions that we musicians call 'dirty power', making signals lose power, fluctuate, be noisy as hell, and sometimes cause amps to shut down completely? I recently had my system shut down because of this. If the power supply in an amp moderates the power so well, why does this still get through the signal chain to the output? And why do most professional sound companies use power conditioners in their racks if they are so totally useless as some people here claim? And if power conditioners work, why wouldn't a power cable influence the sound in a similar way if they were constructed to deal with these situations?

Just curious; I'm asking a serious question, there's no need for ridicule.

Cheers,
Cameron

You are confusing power regulators (big, heavy, expensive) with power conditioners, which are nothing more than glorified extension cords for the most part, and are not needed with power amplifiers.

 

[nostatic]

In the ensuing year those who are admittedly uneducated in how gear actually works beyond 'you plug it in' could have done the unthinkable, read a book or two, to advance their understanding of how the tools with which they make a living function. I recall an offer being made at that time to send the magic cable to a qualified third party for proper testing. A year later that hasn't happened either. Tune in again a year from now, I'm sure the situation will have stayed the same.

"Math is hard!"

- Barbie

 

[B-string]

I'm a musician, not a scientist.

I have a vague notion, that's why I was hoping somebody scientifically credible would do it, like Bob, since no one here seems to believe trained musicians.

So who is this John guy people are talking about?

Cheers,
Cameron

Johnk_10, he is in Cal., very informed, very nice studio, more toys than one man should have (but knows how to USE them). He's also been in on the engineering level of several amps in the past. Most important is open minded, honest and pretty good ears (maybe not as good as my own ), the measurement equipment to study this and the willingness.

 

[Munjibunga]

In the ensuing year those who are admittedly uneducated in how gear actually works beyond 'you plug it in' could have done the unthinkable, read a book or two, to advance their understanding of how the tools with which they make a living function. I recall an offer being made at that time to send the magic cable to a qualified third party for proper testing. A year later that hasn't happened either. Tune in again a year from now, I'm sure the situation will have stayed the same.

Bill, be careful about calling people uneducated. You may get their panties in a wad.

 

[lomo]

What gets people's knickers in a knot is being TOLD that their panties are in a wad. It certainly won't get them to listen in earnest, and I can't blame anyone for tuning out someone who alternates between cogent arguments and put-downs, however convincing the former may be.

 

[Munjibunga]

What gets people's knickers in a knot is being TOLD that their panties are in a wad. It certainly won't get them to listen in earnest, and I can't blame anyone for tuning out someone who alternates between cogent arguments and put-downs, however convincing the former may be.

Do you really think there's a chance that the true believers are going to listen in earnest? I'm not seeing any evidence of it. I don't care about being tuned out, either. In fact, that's what people should do if they don't like to hear what I'm saying.

 

[MikeBass]

Well, I did the test.
Seems it's ignored.
So, unsubscribe in a few.

 

[B-string]

What gets people's knickers in a knot is being TOLD that their panties are in a wad. It certainly won't get them to listen in earnest, and I can't blame anyone for tuning out someone who alternates between cogent arguments and put-downs, however convincing the former may be.

^ A person of true intelligence Thank you!