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Only $2,000 to improve your amp's performance

#781
So here's what I know, as a potential customer with no firsthand experience:

1. The ESP cables seem plausible - the tech info about the construction of the cable (20 AWG conductors in parallel for no phase shifts) from the website + major players like Wooten and Manring + a bunch of favorable reviews + a bunch of guys on TB liking it - it doesnt sound like snake oil or conspiracy to me

2. Some big pieces of info are missing - namely why a power cable can affect the poweramp of a rig, and the claimed ability of the cable to 'filter' the current running through it (the website states that it was designed that way, but only very briefly in the FAQ)

3. I have listened to the Gearwire videos on the website through a TC Konnekt+decent Empire speakers, and I could deffinately hear a difference (not in the proposedly more focused bass-attack though, theres no low end in my speakers)


This product is pretty hard to figure out - on one side, theres plenty of reasons to spend 99 bucks (on sale) to improve your sound a bit - on the other side, on my favorite website, in every thread on the subject there are loads of posts saying its impossible, snake oil, *meanie sarcasm*, etc.



Instead of coming up with all sorts of undoable mass-blind-a/b-tests, I propose an easier, more black/white test for those of you who own these cables:

Increase in volume? - the cables are supposed to boost your amp's volume compared to the standard cord. I figure that if the cable provides extra volume, it must interact with the poweramp on some level beyond 3$ cord level.

No noise? - the cables should remove any noise from your amp. If your had noise on the old cord, but none with the new, I figure that the cable must be filtering the current like the website suggests, since if not, the amp would still pickup the rest of the noisy wiring-grid through it.


Im not at all an audio engineer, correct me if Im wrong :hyper:
 
#782
mokkat said:
So here's what I know, as a potential customer with no firsthand experience:

1. The ESP cables seem plausible - the tech info about the construction of the cable (20 AWG conductors in parallel for no phase shifts) from the website + major players like Wooten and Manring + a bunch of favorable reviews + a bunch of guys on TB liking it - it doesnt sound like snake oil or conspiracy to me

2. Some big pieces of info are missing - namely why a power cable can affect the poweramp of a rig, and the claimed ability of the cable to 'filter' the current running through it (the website states that it was designed that way, but only very briefly in the FAQ)

3. I have listened to the Gearwire videos on the website through a TC Konnekt+decent Empire speakers, and I could deffinately hear a difference (not in the proposedly more focused bass-attack though, theres no low end in my speakers)


This product is pretty hard to figure out - on one side, theres plenty of reasons to spend 99 bucks (on sale) to improve your sound a bit - on the other side, on my favorite website, in every thread on the subject there are loads of posts saying its impossible, snake oil, *meanie sarcasm*, etc.



Instead of coming up with all sorts of undoable mass-blind-a/b-tests, I propose an easier, more black/white test for those of you who own these cables:

Increase in volume? - the cables are supposed to boost your amp's volume compared to the standard cord. I figure that if the cable provides extra volume, it must interact with the poweramp on some level beyond 3$ cord level.

No noise? - the cables should remove any noise from your amp. If your had noise on the old cord, but none with the new, I figure that the cable must be filtering the current like the website suggests, since if not, the amp would still pickup the rest of the noisy wiring-grid through it.


Im not at all an audio engineer, correct me if Im wrong :hyper:
Click to expand...

Only a blind A/B test will TRULY tell you what your ears perceive, period. It is a simple, incontrovertable fact that if you KNOW which cord you are playing through or listening to, your opinion and perception are biased. It baffles me that so many people seem to fail to grasp this. Why do you call this "undoable"? All it takes is 2 people, 2 cords, a bass rig and an hour?
 
#785
mokkat said:
So here's what I know, as a potential customer with no firsthand experience:

1. The ESP cables seem plausible - the tech info about the construction of the cable (20 AWG conductors in parallel for no phase shifts)
Click to expand...
Does the cable go all the way back to the power station? Or at least to the AC mains panel? Make the comparison to connecting a water hose to the spigot outside your house, a spigot fed by 1/2" pipe. The water won't flow any faster or with any higher volume by using a larger diameter hose than 1/2". And it won't taste any better either.
2. Some big pieces of info are missing - namely why a power cable can affect the poweramp of a rig, and the claimed ability of the cable to 'filter' the current running through it (the website states that it was designed that way, but only very briefly in the FAQ)
Click to expand...
That bit seems perfectly plausible to those who don't know how amps work and assume that the 'quality' of the AC affects amp performance, because they also assume amps run on AC. They don't. Amps run on DC. The incoming AC is converted to DC by the amp power supply, which filters out noise in the AC line far more effectively than any cable can.




Im not at all an audio engineer
Click to expand...
And that's the main customer base that snake-oil is aimed at, those who lack the knowledge to see the BS for what it is. Note the absolute lack of support for this tomfoolery by anyone with engineering credentials.
 
#786
Amp manufacturers should start adding multiple power chord connectors to their amps. Then people could buy multiples of these cables and get even more benefit. :rollno:

I've noticed more and more of these cables showing up on the market. Many look suspiciously like just a cable covered in that expanding sheathing anyone can buy at any computer store. All have great marketing copy but no proof or studies.
In order to keep the UL rating - and not go through their own UL rating they have to be pretty much just an unmodified cable.

Don't buy any power cable that isn't UL rated. It's not just current rating but it's also wear and tear mechanical testing like the weight of the cable hanging off the back of the amp and straining where it plugs into the amp.

The blind study done at hydrogen audio found no difference in power cables. It keeps coming up because of ad copy hype and gullibility due to lack of basic knowledge.

Sagan had it right when he said we live in a society highly dependent on science and technology where hardly anyone understands science and technology.

I'd add - most would rather listen to infomercials, celebrities, and ad copy, over science. Some of this it outright dangerous.
 
#788
Bluesy Soul said:
"If I listened long enough to you
I’d find a way to believe that it’s all true
Knowing that you lied-- straight-faced while I cried,
Still I look to find a reason to believe..."

Reason To Believe (Tim Hardin)

Maybe Tim was writing about a forlorn bass player who just blew $100 or more on power cord ! ? ;)
Click to expand...

I doubt it. Having spent the dough, there is likely to be a huge internal psychological predisposition to believe it works, and apparently not much taste for listening to reason or actually performing a reliable, simple empirical test to evaluate it. It amazes me that so many people are prepared to accept logical, scientific thought when they drive, have surgery or answer their cell phone, but selectively disregard all it's principles when they want to believe something that it contradicts.
 
#790
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384099

There was my initial impression, and my thoughts on what I heard the cable do for my bass system...

So that's totally and physically impossible?

And no one who could verify it will...

Cheers,
Cameron


Bluesy Soul said:
"If I listened long enough to you
I’d find a way to believe that it’s all true
Knowing that you lied-- straight-faced while I cried,
Still I look to find a reason to believe..."

Reason To Believe (Tim Hardin)

Maybe Tim was writing about a forlorn bass player who just blew $100 or more on power cord ! ? ;)
Click to expand...
 
#792
Bassflute said:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384099

There was my initial impression, and my thoughts on what I heard the cable do for my bass system...

So that's totally and physically impossible?

And no one who could verify it will...

Cheers,
Cameron
Click to expand...

With respect, you should realize that you're basically asking Bob to waste his time for no good reason. Most of us don't mind wasting a bit our own time, for our own reasons, by our own choice, but I'd say many of us wouldn't appreciate having someone else request that we waste our time on something that only the requester thinks is important.

For instance, suppose you believed that the heart of a distant quasar was actually a very cold and condensed ball of Wensleydale cheese. And you then asked an astronomer to spend his or her own time, gratis, testing whether this was the case. Would you be surprised if that scientist showed no inclination to do so and considered it a waste of time?

I jest of course, but to those who know this stuff well, the magic power cable scenario is probably not much less probable than my lame comedic comparison. Really, the onus is not on anyone else to prove nonsensical claims false. The onus is on the proponents of such claims to prove them true.
 
#793
Bassflute said:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384099

There was my initial impression, and my thoughts on what I heard the cable do for my bass system...

So that's totally and physically impossible?

And no one who could verify it will...

Cheers,
Cameron
Click to expand...


I don't know about all that - John seems willing to take an unbiased look into the matter, and most here would deem him to be trustworthy and capable of handling such a task... Maybe instead of repeating the same tripe over and over again, one of you "believers" can loan him one of these magic cables and he'll post the results...



- georgestrings
 
#794
Richard Lindsey said:
For instance, suppose you believed that the heart of a distant quasar was actually a very cold and condensed ball of Wensleydale cheese. And you then asked an astronomer to spend his or her own time, gratis, testing whether this was the case. Would you be surprised if that scientist showed no inclination to do so and considered it a waste of time?
Click to expand...

Already did the test. It is Stilton.

That will be $1M dollars please...and no you can't pay me in power cables...
 
#796
georgestrings said:
I don't know about all that - John seems willing to take an unbiased look into the matter, and most here would deem him to be trustworthy and capable of handling such a task... Maybe instead of repeating the same tripe over and over again, one of you "believers" can loan him one of these magic cables and he'll post the results...



- georgestrings
Click to expand...

I agree! Johnk_10 agreed to do this and even run RTA tests. A generous offer has been made by two people. Get these two together, Bob I can understand not being willing for several reasons. Anybody else recess should be over soon.
Again not a believer just curious.
 
#799
I am a skeptic scientist, but I must say (to noone in particular, and probably, on occasion, to myself) that snide or condescending remarks will not help convince anyone of anything, ever. You can lead the horse to water, but holding his head under the surface won't quench his thirst. Hijack over.
 

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