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Only $2,000 to improve your amp's performance

#761
I work for the largest laser scanning company in the world (www.perceptron.com)
I work with a development team on a whole new generation of pretty powerful scanning systems.

Our lab has a completely dedicated, isolated and regulated power. About as perfect as it could really be.
The EE's working here...nutty intelligent.

These new systems are in various prototype stages.
I'm pretty sure, as they spare no expense on this project, that is a power cable like this would help, it would be here. I haven't see one yet.

Some of the early prototype spit out a ton of RF/EMI. And we have some pretty sensitive equipment in the room that if there was something that would help with that, it would be used.

This isn't some little garage based company playing with laser pointers. These systems at this point are UBER expensive. And super sensitive at this point.

The test fixtures I'm designing are accurate to .001 of a mm. Damn near a micro. Tens of thousands of dollars.
This is just a test fixture.

If a cable of this type would help, it would be here. I pretty sure of that.
But maybe it works.
Negates that couple of hundred feet of crap cable being hit with tons of RF/EMI/dirty power in 6'.
 
#762
Oh crap!!
This is the cable that we did a double blind test with at Low Down Sound.
And the results were negligible between the stock cable and this one.

Switching it back and forth while the same player (two different guys) played the same line.
I think we switched it 5 times for each player.

Again, no one, even just listeners could tell any difference.

If Tom is reading this, I would make the trek down and would love to be part of the test.
 
#763
MikeBass said:
Oh crap!!
This is the cable that we did a double blind test with at Low Down Sound.
And the results were negligible between the stock cable and this one.

Switching it back and forth while the same player (two different guys) played the same line.
I think we switched it 5 times for each player.

Again, no one, even just listeners could tell any difference.

If Tom is reading this, I would make the trek down and would love to be part of the test.
Click to expand...

This may not have been an airtight double blind test, but it's the first whiff of any trustworthy blind data I've come across. Thanks for genuinely adding something new to the thread.
 
#764
lomo said:
This may not have been an airtight double blind test, but it's the first whiff of any trustworthy blind data I've come across. Thanks for genuinely adding something new to the thread.
Click to expand...

It's so not airtight LOL!!
But it gave a bit of a view on a VERY surface level.

I'm skeptical as anyone, but I'm still open minded about this.

If it works, then there is zero to talk about. It works.

I wouldn't buy it. My wife would KILL me for spending that much on a power cable!!!
 
#765
MikeBass said:
I work for the largest laser scanning company in the world (www.perceptron.com)
I work with a development team on a whole new generation of pretty powerful scanning systems.

Our lab has a completely dedicated, isolated and regulated power. About as perfect as it could really be.
The EE's working here...nutty intelligent.

These new systems are in various prototype stages.
I'm pretty sure, as they spare no expense on this project, that is a power cable like this would help, it would be here. I haven't see one yet.

Some of the early prototype spit out a ton of RF/EMI. And we have some pretty sensitive equipment in the room that if there was something that would help with that, it would be used.

This isn't some little garage based company playing with laser pointers. These systems at this point are UBER expensive. And super sensitive at this point.

The test fixtures I'm designing are accurate to .001 of a mm. Damn near a micro. Tens of thousands of dollars.
This is just a test fixture.

If a cable of this type would help, it would be here. I pretty sure of that.
But maybe it works.
Negates that couple of hundred feet of crap cable being hit with tons of RF/EMI/dirty power in 6'.
Click to expand...

Nice! I'm betting you guys have some real fancy gear. We use a few laser systems, currently getting an ultrafast OPA setup, while not "that expensive" in the grand scheme of lasers, working with a bit of kit that cost just over £250,000 is pretty sweet. We also work on etching various polymers and glasses with a few other lasers.

Oh, and not to be a dick, but 0.001mm is micro (1 mircometre/micron) :p


(and yeah, surprisingly we don't need these fancy cables either!)
 
#766
bassybill said:
Okay, I'm a reasonable guy.

I've had two PMs about this thread saying folks would like to continue the discussion. Wow, some of you guys are persistent. So, I spent some time cleaning up the mess. If your post got deleted it was either out of line, quoted by someone who was out of line or just too plain idiotic to exist. :D

I'm not going to spend more time sending PMs to everyone whose post got canned - life is too short.

And don't shoot me for kidding around in this post. If you'd just waded through what I did, you'd try to cheer yourself up too, believe me.

Now, carry on nicely if you wish. Let's see if we can keep it polite and avoid any unsubstantiated assertions (as far as that's possible). Go...
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for all your hard work...seriously!

hall1k said:
I propose we perform a less subjective test. Record two samples, one using each cord, playing the exact same sound (you could use a track played through the amp's CD-IN port to ensure the starting sound is identical), then record the output of the amp both times. Then it would be simple enough to write a small program in C (using libsndfile) to compare the two waveforms bit by bit. I guarantee you they will be virtually identical.
Click to expand...

The recording process is in itself so variable, then we add the complexities of what speakers everyone's listening to, and sending a cheesy mp3 of ANYTHING through the internet would negate any differences - a Mexican pre with flatwounds sounds like a Fodera Anthony Jackson here. I picked Bob because

1) He's an audio engineer
2) He's a bass player
3) He's a nice guy, and an honest one, I believe
4) He's so skeptical about these cables, as I was
5) His company builds great gear

And still NOBODY has addressed my body's seemingly incomplete implementation of the 'placebo' effect...why did it take hold of me so strongly with this cable, which I paid shipping for ($28.00), but it DIDN'T take hold of me for the $150.00 + taxes power conditioner?

And just for the record, in university for one of my music degree electives, I took a class called Acoustics 360, in the science department, which included an in-depth study of psychoacoustics...I was also trained as a flute player, where we deal with difference tones all the time...I used to perform a famous piece called 'Trio for Two Flutes', using difference tones throughout...so I do know a bit about that. People are using this term wrongly here a lot of the time.

Tell you what, Bob, let's remove the 'bet' part from the equation, the money part. How about I just send you this cable, keep it as long as you need, I'll pay return postage, and even include a stamped, self-addressed container to return it to me in...would that work?

All you have to do is publish your findings here, whenever you get around to it...be honest, blast it to smithereens if that's what happens, or admit that it works, a little bit, which is what I'm personally claiming...subjectively, a 1 to 2% difference in the 'noise floor', which in turn allows for what is perceived to be a 'cleaner' sound...that's all I'm claiming. For people to jump up and down on me for being some kind of wacko for that, well...what can I say. Buy one and try it yourself...put your money where your big mouth is instead of just loudly insulting me for something you HAVE NOT tried...try it in everything...switching power supply amps (I HAVEN'T tried that), big old lead-sled hybrids like the Eden WT800 (I used that extensively, and it works), guitar tube amps (I have several testimonials from pro guitarists of it's effectiveness here, no personal experience), stereo amps...try it in your freaking toaster, I don't care.
 
#767
Bassflute said:
All you have to do is publish your findings here, whenever you get around to it...be honest, blast it to smithereens if that's what happens, or admit that it works, a little bit, which is what I'm personally claiming...subjectively, a 1 to 2% difference in the 'noise floor', which in turn allows for what is perceived to be a 'cleaner' sound...that's all I'm claiming.
Click to expand...
Well, here's the problem, Cam: if he does it, and ends up agreeing with you, you'll be vindicated- hurray!
But if he says, 'Nope- nothing. No difference heard or measured,' you'll say he hears things differently than you do or, his test was flawed, etc. There's no way for someone who disagrees with you, to win. Which is why I'm sure he won't bother with your offer.
 
#768
I'm sure it works. Look, a power cable is so simple that almost anyone can make one. That's why you can buy them so inexpensively. The myriad mysteries of AC wiring have been unlocked for many decades now and are readily understandable to any who study them for as long as a day or two, and perhaps they remain a cloaked puzzle to those who don't.

Like I said, at best your power cable is a competently made one like so many out there that cost a fraction of this magic one that you like. It would be hard for a cable maker to screw that up. The magical tone-changing claims are snake oil, and the manufacturer and its aficionados seem uninterested in (or incapable of) proving otherwise.
 
#769
Bassflute said:
That's helpful...if you don't believe in any of this, just go away rather than being rude and ignorant about something with which you have absolutely NO experience...you have never heard THIS cable, so you just don't know. You're just being a loudmouthed jerk and are likely to get the thread closed again.

I've told you time and time again, the aliens who abducted me and had my baby HAVE cold fusion, I don't care what you say...

Just be nice...how do you really KNOW this thing doesn't work FOR SURE unless you've tried it...the dozen or so musicians I have leant it to have ALL said the thing works, not a lot, but enough that it's NOT a bunch of snake oil as some here claim.

Thanks,
Cameron
Click to expand...

While I am a firm believer in Shakespeare's words, that doesn't mean that I abandon the scientific method or rational thought in the face of marketing hype or placebo effects that are only exacerbated by interwebs testimonials.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Also needs to be followed by,

"A fool and his money are soon parted."
 
#770
i_got_a_mohawk said:
Nice! I'm betting you guys have some real fancy gear. We use a few laser systems, currently getting an ultrafast OPA setup, while not "that expensive" in the grand scheme of lasers, working with a bit of kit that cost just over £250,000 is pretty sweet. We also work on etching various polymers and glasses with a few other lasers.

Oh, and not to be a dick, but 0.001mm is micro (1 mircometre/micron) :p


(and yeah, surprisingly we don't need these fancy cables either!)
Click to expand...


Oops! Yes, 0.001 is a micron. I go from Imperial/US to Metric all the time, I just forget at moments! (like when I'm at work and trying to sneak on TB! like right now!!!! :D)
 
#773
Bassflute said:
3rd year science at UBC...probably still there...

So nobody will take me up on the offer, they'll just all say it doesn't work, and insult me personally. That makes sense...

:scowl:

Sorry, but it does.

Cheers,
Cameron
Click to expand...

Bro, I would take you up on the offer but my observations would be met with no higher regard than yours. Those that might be respected seem unwilling. Those that considered setting up a double blind test were badgered bad enough they lost all interest (and I don't blame them). Your offer was the best thing I have seen so far here, yet it goes unanswered.
 
#778
I'd completely trust johnk's impressions.

But even with his enviable bass rigs and discerning ears, I don't expect a good outcome for ESP. My position being that the audible differences that (I think) I hear in power cords are so subtle and minor that they'd inaudible and wasted on the sledgehammers we know as bass amps.
 
#779
thanks guys. even if it is subtle, then there IS a difference. personally, i don't think that there will be, but i like to think that i am open minded enough to at least test it and let the cards fall where they may.
i would try it, both with a bass and with full music content, since i think that full range music would expose the differences more, if there is one.
i could also run some RTA tests on it too.
 
#780
Some more cleaning up necessary, mainly owing to a Rule #5 violation AGAIN. This seems a no-brainer to me, but a least two people have been given infractions for apparently being unable to grasp my earlier comments.

Rule #5: Do not question moderation policies/actions in the forums

If you have a disagreement with a moderator (If your thread gets deleted, if you get a warning, etc.), DO NOT post your complaint publicly on the forums. If you have a problem with a moderator's actions, PM or email the moderator privately. If the moderator's response is unsatisfactory, email the administrators (username: Paul, Chris Fitzgerald, john turner, David Wilson) or use the Contact Us link at the bottom of every page of the site.

We take all complaints seriously, but posting your dissatisfaction publicly will result in a rule violation.
Click to expand...
 

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