Only $2,000 to improve your amp's performance

[lomo]

I am glad there are still some posting here who understand that without a proper double-blind test this product is absolute vaporware and nothing more, and that the onus of proof lies entirely on the side of those making the claims that contradict what IS known......more power to you......but in the end, some hear what they want to hear (pun intended) and disregard the rest. I'm also glad that drug makers have to prove their products work before going to market, rather than leaving the onus on the consumer

Finally, I'd like to reiterate that the word "scientific" in this discussion simply means "subject to very strict standards of logic and demonstrably objective". The definition of faith is, essentially, belief without proof or weight of evidence. It is belief without logic. It is also the basis for the sale of the cable under discussion.

 

[B-string]

We've already been this route in the Tara Labs thread. I don't think it ever came to fruition.

That's why I say take him up on it. If Bob Lee had it in his hands I think he could be trusted to do a proper test. I (personally) believe his results could relied upon, yea or nea?

 

[nostatic]

The problem is that any "test" will not be good enough for the believers (such is the pull of the kool-aid). You can do double-blind listening, spec measurements, etc, and someone will claim that either the tests were rigged or they'll read something into it and draw a ridiculous conclusion. I've seen people do some pretty amazing things with data before - like the time a guy drew a parabola using a single experimental data point (and it wasn't even the vertex). He had something that he wanted to fit so he made it fit. He also was laughed out of the room, but continued to believe his "results."

Some people will not admit that something is green if they believe it to be blue no matter what kind of grass it is. Never underestimate the stubbornness of humans, nor their ability to conflate "faith" and "logic."

 

[Bluesy Soul]

That's why I say take him up on it. If Bob Lee had it in his hands I think he could be trusted to do a proper test. I (personally) believe his results could relied upon, yea or nea?

I would absolutely trust Bob's results.

The problem, however, is that someone who wants to believe what they think they heard is unlikely to defer to any distant, third-party's results that are contrary--even if those results came from the Owens Corning Acoustic Research Center or the Acoustics Research Institute at the Austrian Academy of Sciences.

Does this comment exhibit an open mind about any testing that Bob might conduct:

...shall I send it to you so you can prove it's worthless?
Cameron

Psychoacoustics or not, as Tom Bowlus once said: "If you hear it, then you hear it."

 

[johnk_10]

That's why I say take him up on it. If Bob Lee had it in his hands I think he could be trusted to do a proper test. I (personally) believe his results could relied upon, yea or nea?

+100
i agree. i think that if Bob could detect a difference, he's open minded, analytical, qualified, and logical enough so that his opinion before the test wouldn't effect his position afterwards.
i say, go for it. i definitely trust him.

 

[seamonkey]

I don't think Bob ought to bother.

QSC provides with each product the best possible cable they can.

If you use a ESP cables or power conditioner and your gear somehow sounds better - then there's something wrong with your gear. The cable is only correcting some fault with your gear.

In this case QSC provides the best cable, which is a standard cable because there nothing wrong with their gear.

Why would Bob look for superior measurements in a cable outside of what QSC gear requires?

People with bad gear can continue to look for and buy cables to correct problems with their gear. Or they can buy better gear.

 

["Q"]

QSC provides with each product the best possible cable they can.

QSC is still a manufacturer that makes things in quantity. If a better power cord made a 3% difference in performance but costs an extra 200 dollars it's just not a feasible to include it.

They have to compromise at some point and the best thing you can do is compromise on things that are easily replaceable by the end user. You'll see this in a lot of products such as the speakers in cheaper guitar amps and Gibson tuning machines are usually pretty bad but you can just swap them out if you don't like them.

I for one, am happy that all QSC amps don't cost 200 bucks more even tho I would like to have that super power cord included.

 

[Munjibunga]

That's why I say take him up on it. If Bob Lee had it in his hands I think he could be trusted to do a proper test. I (personally) believe his results could relied upon, yea or nea?

The question is, is Bob's boss interested enough in this folly to grant Bob the time and resources to waste?

 

[BassyBill]

Okay, I'm a reasonable guy.

I've had two PMs about this thread saying folks would like to continue the discussion. Wow, some of you guys are persistent. So, I spent some time cleaning up the mess. If your post got deleted it was either out of line, quoted by someone who was out of line or just too plain idiotic to exist.

I'm not going to spend more time sending PMs to everyone whose post got canned - life is too short.

And don't shoot me for kidding around in this post. If you'd just waded through what I did, you'd try to cheer yourself up too, believe me.

Now, carry on nicely if you wish. Let's see if we can keep it polite and avoid any unsubstantiated assertions (as far as that's possible). Go...

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Your Mother!

Sorry, just wanted to contribute in a good and reasonable fashion

 

[seamonkey]

[quote="Q";9131203]QSC is still a manufacturer that makes things in quantity. If a better power cord made a 3% difference in performance but costs an extra 200 dollars it's just not a feasible to include it.

[/quote]

They build all this protection and filtering into the power supply. So I really don't believe a 3% difference could exist. Or even .03% - as they easily measure distortion levels down to this point. They could easily measure cable differences if it mattered. But I'm sure they'd just adjust their power supply components.

If it made a 3% difference, then their amps are faulty.

 

[B-string]

Thank you BB.

 

[SpamBot]

Thank you BB.

+1

 

["Q"]

If it made a 3% difference, then their amps are faulty.

I'm not sure what your reasoning for this is.

If a person drops a 350 V8 into a Ford Festiva and gets it to go 180 MPH does that mean the car was incorrectly designed or faulty?

In fact, I'd think that QSC, or any manufacturer would be proud that their product was deemed worthy of such a pricey upgrade in the first place instead of assuming that it was just "faulty" and needed to be completely replaced to gain any increase in performance.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Are you seriously saying a power cable is analogous to an engine?

 

["Q"]

Are you seriously saying a power cable is analogous to an engine?

Of course not, the intent was to point out that a modification to improve performance in no way constitutes a failure in the stock design. It was an analogy for the spirit of that modification and nothing more.

 

[jdwinva]

There's one born every minute....

 

[lomo]

Is my supposed "faith" (Munji's word, not mine) in my own ears

The issue here is that the ONLY way for you to TRULY know if your EARS are discerning between the 2 cables is for you to listen blindly while someone else silently switches the cables. Do this 50 times BLINDLY and see if you can tell the difference
more frequently than would be expected based on chance. Otherwise, your ears are biased by your knowledge and expectations. This applies to any "observer" in any situation.
You are certainly entitled to state that you feel there is a difference and I certainly respect you, but please understand that the placebo effect applies here in spades, and the claims of the manufacturer run contrary to the principles of physics.
Failure to understand this is what keeps snake oil dudes in the black.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

To stick with the car analogies:

Using a $2,000 power cable is like spending $2000 to paint your blue car red.

Because we all know the red ones go faster.

Also, people who think these things actually make a difference. Have you considered forking out to replace the wiring in your house

 

["Q"]

To stick with the car analogies:

Have you considered forking out to replace the wiring in your house

To put in isolated grounds for a recording studio and a dedicated circuit so my DVD player doesn't share a line with my fridge? Absolutely.