Only the world's best CNC machines!

[David Jayne]

CNC's can be spot-on, but only if the operator plugs in the right numbers. Carvins look like they're put together beautifully, but time and time again to me, they play like total ass.

I suspect that's down to design, rather than the method of cutting the wooden parts. Also, there's plenty of folks here who think Carvins play just great. Personal preference?

 

[Munjibunga]

I fell asleep on a bench in the Louvre. Too much to process. I get the idea of art and it's role in preserving history and capturing emotion but really, it is hardly what drives our society. As much as artists like to believe it does.

Ironic that the computer is the most powerful and adaptable tool every created for artistic and literary expression to date, and virtually free worldwide dissemination of this expression for anyone who wants to see it. Not to mention the repository of instantly shared knowledge and art that makes the great Alexandria libraries and any single museum look like a floppy disc by comparison.

Don't give me the 'ya gotta be there' thing. I have, Seen the Prada, seen the Louvre, da Vinci's works in Florence. I stood next to Michaelangelo's David in an empty room with no guard, I couldn't believe you could just walk up to it like an ordinary statue. I stared right into the eyes of the Mona Lisa. I get it but honestly, to trade our computer technology and the repository of knowledge it contains for art would be a tragedy.

Must've been a slow day at the Louvre. When we were there, the Mona Lisa room was packed tight with tourists. It was about 90 degrees in there, and the painting is not in a climate-controlled display. I asked our guide why they didn't put it in a refrigerated room, and she said, "It's cheaper to restore the painting periodically than it is to air-condition the room." I about pooped my pants. Here's the best picture I could get from about 30 feet away.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Do you know why she smiled like that?

 

[Canadian APII]

0

I would say that the burden of proof is yours to carry. You're the one making the impossible to explain claim. On the other hand, you are comparing two different basses, and that never goes well. I will say though that as little as I believe the body actually contributes to overall sound, plywood is probably not ideal. I suspect it's too dense and stiff, with grain running in different directions layer to layer.

I'll sell my plywood one to you and you can experiment.

 

[Canadian APII]

Must've been a slow day at the Louvre. When we were there, the Mona Lisa room was packed tight with tourists. It was about 90 degrees in there, and the painting is not in a climate-controlled display. I asked our guide why they didn't put it in a refrigerated room, and she said, "It's cheaper to restore the painting periodically than it is to air-condition the room." I about pooped my pants. Here's the best picture I could get from about 30 feet away.

View attachment 613924

I am surprised they allow pictures.

 

[pedroims]

Must've been a slow day at the Louvre. When we were there, the Mona Lisa room was packed tight with tourists. It was about 90 degrees in there, and the painting is not in a climate-controlled display. I asked our guide why they didn't put it in a refrigerated room, and she said, "It's cheaper to restore the painting periodically than it is to air-condition the room." I about pooped my pants. Here's the best picture I could get from about 30 feet away.

View attachment 613924

A quick internet search: The picture is currently kept under strict, climate-controlled conditions in its bulletproof glass case. The humidity is maintained at 50% ±10%, and the temperature is maintained between 18 and 21 °C. To compensate for fluctuations in relative humidity, the case is supplemented with a bed of silica gel treated to provide 55% relative humidity.[44]

 

[Munjibunga]

A quick internet search: The picture is currently kept under strict, climate-controlled conditions in its bulletproof glass case. The humidity is maintained at 50% ±10%, and the temperature is maintained between 18 and 21 °C. To compensate for fluctuations in relative humidity, the case is supplemented with a bed of silica gel treated to provide 55% relative humidity.[44]

This was in July of 2010. Maybe the guide noticed my shock and mentioned it to the curator.

 

[gln1955]

This was in July of 2010. Maybe the guide noticed my shock and mentioned it to the curator.

Maybe you were confused and looking at da Vinci's lesser known work "Sharona Lisa". It happens all the time.

 

[nashvillebill]

A quick internet search: The picture is currently kept under strict, climate-controlled conditions in its bulletproof glass case. The humidity is maintained at 50% ±10%, and the temperature is maintained between 18 and 21 °C. To compensate for fluctuations in relative humidity, the case is supplemented with a bed of silica gel treated to provide 55% relative humidity.[44]

I saw the Mona Lisa in the mid-80's and it was in the bulletproof glass case back then too, with a guard next to it.

 

[Gard]

CNC's can be spot-on, but only if the operator plugs in the right numbers. Carvins look like they're put together beautifully, but time and time again to me, they play like total ass. Roscoe, on the other hand, no, the asthetics might not be CNC perfect, but their playability and sound completely blow Carvin out of the water. There's a lot, in a very significant sense, to be said for an instrument that's truly made by hand. Yes, it takes longer, and for good reason--it's being given attention by a human, and not a machine not knowing anything more than what numbers it's given.

FWIW, we DO use a CNC for some processes - not ALWAYS, but often enough to say we have and use one. You're right, the operator is a big piece of the puzzle, but so is what you do AFTER it comes off the machine. The machine can only get it so close to "right", in my opinion. It takes someone that knows how it should feel to do the final work on a body or neck. You cannot pull a neck or body of a machine, spray paint on it, and call it "good", and have that work. The machine is good for doing repetitive, clearly defined tasks - pocketing, general outline, rough approximation of final carve. Getting the real detail work correct, making sure everything fits together perfectly, really takes a trained eye and hand. No matter how good the machine, the operator, and the number are, this is wood and there is variation from piece to piece, which really requires someone that understands how it should all end up.

 

[songwriter21]

I suspect that's down to design, rather than the method of cutting the wooden parts. Also, there's plenty of folks here who think Carvins play just great. Personal preference?

Yeah, it's indeed personal preference, as I've owned a bunch, and sent them back or sold them, because they just missed in certain areas for me. I still wonder what the Kiesel customs are like, though.

 

[Old Blastard]

I would love to learn about his process. And where he got a Univac from?

Well, it could have been a Binac. Rumor had it that one of the punch cards was accidentally folded, bent, spindled and partially mutilated, resulting in the Jazz bass.

 

[gln1955]

Well, it could have been a Binac. Rumor had it that one of the punch cards was accidentally folded, bent, spindled and partially mutilated, resulting in the Jazz bass.

Leo wrote a DO LOOP for the P bass and its still running.

 

[Canadian APII]

FWIW, we DO use a CNC for some processes - not ALWAYS, but often enough to say we have and use one. You're right, the operator is a big piece of the puzzle, but so is what you do AFTER it comes off the machine. The machine can only get it so close to "right", in my opinion. It takes someone that knows how it should feel to do the final work on a body or neck. You cannot pull a neck or body of a machine, spray paint on it, and call it "good", and have that work. The machine is good for doing repetitive, clearly defined tasks - pocketing, general outline, rough approximation of final carve. Getting the real detail work correct, making sure everything fits together perfectly, really takes a trained eye and hand. No matter how good the machine, the operator, and the number are, this is wood and there is variation from piece to piece, which really requires someone that understands how it should all end up.

I thoroughly agree. Maybe I wasn't expressing myself as well as you.
I believe CNC is a tool to be used appropriatly. I can see some companies laying off Luthiers to hire less expensive techs to churn out even less expensive to produce a higher profit margin. This is what I dissagree with.

 

[Munjibunga]

FWIW, we DO use a CNC for some processes - not ALWAYS, but often enough to say we have and use one. You're right, the operator is a big piece of the puzzle, but so is what you do AFTER it comes off the machine. The machine can only get it so close to "right", in my opinion. It takes someone that knows how it should feel to do the final work on a body or neck. You cannot pull a neck or body of a machine, spray paint on it, and call it "good", and have that work. The machine is good for doing repetitive, clearly defined tasks - pocketing, general outline, rough approximation of final carve. Getting the real detail work correct, making sure everything fits together perfectly, really takes a trained eye and hand. No matter how good the machine, the operator, and the number are, this is wood and there is variation from piece to piece, which really requires someone that understands how it should all end up.

So do Fodera and Jerzy Drozd. Not to mention all the "parts bass" builders. I love CNC.

 

[songwriter21]

I would think that you'd have to use CNC somewhere, or that it'd at least be a plus, in order to have a more consistently accurate cut that might not be ideal by hand.

 

[MarkoYYZ]

I thoroughly agree. Maybe I wasn't expressing myself as well as you.
I believe CNC is a tool to be used appropriatly. I can see some companies laying off Luthiers to hire less expensive techs to churn out even less expensive to produce a higher profit margin. This is what I dissagree with.

The luthier-bass market is probably about 2% of the entire production volume of instruments being made. Most people simply don't want or can't afford the kind of instrument you're trying to proclaim as the only one worth buying - and it's just not a reasonable stance.

Since day 1 of electric basses, Leo designed it to be a mass built product at a price point that made it possible to reach a broader number of players. That means more technicians and woodworkers and painters and electronics people, and fewer luthiers. The sooner you accept this to be the norm, the sooner you can stop making others in this thread shake their head at your intransigence.

 

[JimmyM]

People really give a crap how their wood is carved? As long as it's done well, I wouldn't care if my body was carved using the world's best CNC machines or a monkey with a chisel.

 

[Canadian APII]

you are making claims about what I have said that are untrue. I am challenging you to back up your statements instead of blindly following the masses dogma.

 

[Jim C]

People really give a crap how their wood is carved? As long as it's done well, I wouldn't care if my body was carved using the world's best CNC machines or a monkey with a chisel.

You would love SX basses!
Half the time pick guards won't interchange; handmade and done so poorly.