Opinion poll: another bc208, additional 1x12, or something entirely new

[mrbell321]

I’ve currently got a tc electronic bam200 head and a bc208 cab. I’m pretty happy with it but I’m playing with a new drummer who is incredibly loud.
The bam200 can do 200watts at 4ohms, but the bc208 is 8ohm so only getting 100watt.
So some options:

• Another bc208.
  • Lightweight.
  • feels like it was meant to be this way.
  • Low cash outlay since it’s an inexpensive addition to what I have.
• Additional 1x12.
  • Could be light but not quite as light.
  • more expensive, but still relatively small addition rather than replacement.
  • Could fill out the low end(and high end really with a tweeter).
• Whole new setup
  • Could do anything, but want to avoid heavy heavy and cabs
  • Would have to sell what I have

Any opinions?

 

[Nebadon2000]

Try another 2x8 and see if it works for you If you can buy with return policy even better

Not sure how loud you actually need but if you are at least somewhat close to volume needed now another 2x8 will work

 

[mrbell321]

Try another 2x8 and see if it works for you If you can buy with return policy even better

Not sure how loud you actually need but if you are at least somewhat close to volume needed now another 2x8 will work

Ah… I live in the boonies. Returning a cab would mean a several hour road trip or paying to ship, I think.

2 bc208 @200watt peaks out about 116db, theoretically, which is… really effin loud. And since the cabs support 200watt each, I could find a 400watt head and really cause some damage…
Why can’t drummers play softly?

 

[Pulverizor]

If the drummer is loud then get way more speakers! Add an 8ohm 410 at least.
But probably a modular new set-up seems to be in order.

 

[mrbell321]

410s are so heavy.... but if I were to go that way, I'd probably get rid of the 208. I don't think it would be adding much except extra stuff to carry around.
And then I'd want to go 4ohms to get the most out of the amp.

So... know any <50lbs >200watt 410s for cheap?

 

[Kaa]

Hand the drummer a pair of brushes with a threat of violence.

 

[Chris Chong]

Drum shield and IEM?

 

[meisi]

Bam200 is not all that loud to begin with. I’ve run mine at 16 and 4 ohms into the same cab and while you could tell there was a difference it was nothing earth shattering.

I think you need a louder rig if your goal is to keep up or a filter to cut your sub lows to spend your available power into your mids to cut through.

I’m assuming your drummer has a double kick drum speed metal thing going so your fundamentals, which are not much from an 2x8, are getting drowned out anyways.

 

[mrbell321]

I’ve run mine at 16 and 4 ohms into the same cab

How did you manage that?

 

[meisi]

How did you manage that?

I have 2x 8ohm 8” drivers wired in a series/parallel configuration

 

[Pocket Dave]

• Whole new setup
  • Could do anything, but want to avoid heavy heavy and cabs
  • Would have to sell what I have

Any opinions?

I vote whole new setup. You're not going to get an appreciable volume increase adding a second cab to that head at 4 ohms. While peak power is too loud, consistent usable headroom is where you're likely to come up short.

What's your budget?

I'd start with the cab - upgrade from 8" to 10" speakers. I use a Mark Bass 210 cab - their 23 lb MB58r PURE. It has a 400 watt capacity and punches way over its weight and size. I use a second 210 cab rated at 600 watts, stacked vertically, in larger venues without adequate sound support. My head is 500 watts at 4 ohms and the master volume never goes past 12:00.

Do you LIKE the sound and response you get from your BAM200 head? If so, consider upgrading to TC's BQ500. That'll get you some much needed headroom.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Start with the drummer. I am one. I should know. Fix the first problem, and it is DEFINITELY a PROBLEM. There is NO requirement for drummers to play or practice "incredibly loud". Lighter sticks. Drum shield. A polite, yet unyielding "band conversation" about how "incredibly loud" affects everyone else in the band. Second, utilize PA and sound support on gigs and in practice spaces if you have them. Let that equipment do the work it is designed and intended to do. If the PA at at practice really is just a couple 10-inch or whatevers on tripod poles, then YES, think about more volume, more cabinets, etc. I do think instinctually from demoing a lot of different setups that an additional cab (and I say a 12 inch if you already have 2X8) will be a more pleasing sound, with more clean headroom with less desire or need to max out the volume potential of the head and cab, as-is right now. My rule of thumb is NEVER run the bass amp more than 70% of what it's total master volume knob range is. If you need more than that, you're sacrificing longevity of the gear by asking it to produce more volume than it can reliably produce hour after hour and gig after gig, and something will break or start to deconstruct.

 

[Pocket Dave]

I have 2x 8ohm 8” drivers wired in a series/parallel configuration

A little misleading - true series/parallel configuration requires at least 4 speakers. What you have is a jack plate with separate speaker inputs for parallel and series.

 

[mrbell321]

I have 2x 8ohm 8” drivers wired in a series/parallel configuration

Ah, of course. That's cool. I just haven't seen anyone actually do AB comparison like that.

 

[mrbell321]

I used to have an MB 210 traveller or whatever. It was great. I should not have sold it.

And I do like the BAM200. I was actually looking at the BQ500 potentially to go w/ the second bc208 and drive them both a bit harder(or w/ more headroom). That's when I started to question whether I should just jump to an altogether different setup.
It went like this:
I like the bam200/bc208 combo. Surprisingly nice sound and at about 25lbs for both, it's super easy to lug around.
Adding a second lightweight cab seemed obvious... but then it's 50lbs and I'd need 2 hands or two trips, and no real expansion in tonal capabilities and maybe not a major increase in volume.
Move to a BQ500 too, gives a bit more flexibility(4 band eq, rather than 3, extra watts)
Well now I"m ~$350 in plus what I already have... should I sell my setup and go for some ~50lbs cab and head maybe the in the 400watt range rather than 200?

 

[mrbell321]

I thought about buying this... Silentstroke | Remo

 

[Pocket Dave]

I used to have an MB 210 traveller or whatever. It was great. I should not have sold it.

And I do like the BAM200. I was actually looking at the BQ500 potentially to go w/ the second bc208 and drive them both a bit harder(or w/ more headroom). That's when I started to question whether I should just jump to an altogether different setup.
It went like this:
I like the bam200/bc208 combo. Surprisingly nice sound and at about 25lbs for both, it's super easy to lug around.
Adding a second lightweight cab seemed obvious... but then it's 50lbs and I'd need 2 hands or two trips, and no real expansion in tonal capabilities and maybe not a major increase in volume.
Move to a BQ500 too, gives a bit more flexibility(4 band eq, rather than 3, extra watts)
Well now I"m ~$350 in plus what I already have... should I sell my setup and go for some ~50lbs cab and head maybe the in the 400watt range rather than 200?

Of course not. Get a second bc208 if you'd like, but my experience with playing through one at a jam with a 500w head at 250w/8 ohms was it didn't deliver enough headroom to keep up with a moderately loud, though appropriate-for-the-room drummer.

Yeah, and you're going to spend something on an appropriate rig, regardless of what you've currently got.

And if you get to a stage where you're playing with a band where everything gets put through a comprehensive pro level PA with subs, you'll probably have to spend again on a good preamp/DI or modeler and IEM.

At least you're not playing in an orchestra with a $12,000 double bass.

 

[JimChjones]

The second 208 is the safe option, but four eights only gets you as much speaker area as a 1*15, and a little more than a 2*10 so its still quite a small rig, albeit of a size that plenty of us do play live with.

Having said that if you don't want ears that whine at you like mine do it would be better to fix the drummer. The saying that no-one wins a war is definitely true of volume wars.

 

[mrbell321]

but four eights only gets you as much speaker area as a 1*15,

Heh, I hadn't thought of it quite like that... hm... and w/ that consideration, 1x12 is only slightly more speaker area than 2x8.

Also, I should mention that I always wear earplugs when playing.

 

[Wasnex]

2 bc208 @200watt peaks out about 116db, theoretically, which is… really effin loud. And since the cabs support 200watt each, I could find a 400watt head and really cause some damage…

I think it's actually a bit misleading. AFAIK, perceived SPL is based more on the long term average SPL than the Peak SPL.

Peak SPL at 200W RMS is actually 119dB. Live bass has something like a 12dB crest factor. So the long term SPL will be more like 119 - 12 = 107dB.

Add a matching cab and double the power and you get +6dB. So if the current rig is almost loud enough, add a matching cab.

The sensitivity of the BC208 is only 93dB 1W/1m. This is pretty low.
1 cab at 100W = 113dB
2 cabs at 200W = 119dB

My personal minimum is a rig capable of 124dB calculated SPL at usable power. IME a rig capable of 119dB may get the job done, but it will frequently not be enjoyable as a player.

IMHO Probably a better solution is to get a bigger cab with a higher sensitivity rating.

For 124dB with 200W you need a 4 ohm cab with a sensitivity of 101dB 1W/1m. Or you could use two 8 ohm cabs with a sensitivity of 98dB 1W/1m.

Why can’t drummers play softly?

Here's the dirty little secret. They actually can (or at least could if they wanted to). So the truth is closer to the don't want to play softly. In order to play softer, they need to select the right equipment and practice. Will it sound like a drummer bashing the kit? No. But IMHO that's okay for the music and jobs I performed.