This is pretty common, and proves that venues are willing to do with unions to put on the best shows. In a lot of union venues, the techs and teamsters make more than the artists do- because of their union.
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Original bands playing for free: a chronic problem
- Thread starter behemecoytl
- Start date
This is pretty common, and proves that venues are willing to do with unions to put on the best shows. In a lot of union venues, the techs and teamsters make more than the artists do- because of their union.
My "Community Theater" Rock Band can hang with any "Professional Theater Group"!!!!!!!
No. You can't. If you could, you'd be getting paid.
I do get paid, and yes we can! Pay just doesn't define me as a musician and I don't consider it work!
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jive1
Commercial User
I'd love for some band to go in there and make it an actual rehearsal. I can see it now......
Band walks in. They are sitting around waiting for the lead singer, so they pull some bong hits until the singer shows up. They talk for a while, and the drummer talks about the song he wrote. The band shoots him down, and they talk some more band business before they actually start playing.
They play a warm up tune, and then start working on one of their originals. They get a good groove going, and the guitarist stops the tune, mid song, and says, "dudes I just thought of a total killer time-change riff I could throw in". So the band works through that part, and they start all over again. When they are done with the tune to their satisfaction, the drummer says he has a song he wrote, and everyone ignores him. And they repeat this cycle for 3 or 4 songs.
Then they take a break, drink some beers and get on facebook on their phones talking about the new tune they wrote. When they are done, they return and practice their harmony vocals. Singer bitches everyone out, especially the guitarist for singing out of tune, but the guitarist insists he's not off pitch. This goes on for about an hour. The drummer mentions his song he wrote, and the he gets ignored again while thinking in his head that he should actually be the singer and main songwriter.
Drummer gets pissed off during the next song, and he walks away from the kit and gets in the guitarists face and they argue for a while. The bassist steps away, and noodles on some Jaco while they argue. The lead singer gets on facebook to tell his 3000 friends that his drummer and guitarist are arguing. The drummer and guitarist get into a fist fight, and the bass player tries to break it up, while the singer is talking to his girlfriend on the phone, telling her to come over.
The fight stops, they take some more bong hits and they talk music and philosophy for a while and order a pizza from the bar. They drink more beer and whiskey, and the drummer mentions his song again............
We were playing on a ferry in Sydney harbour once. The dipstick who was supposed to unbolt the seats on the stage area didn't do it.
We weren't allowed to unbolt them because we weren't union, so instead we had to set up a drumkit, bass rig and Yamaha CP70 piano (that's a portable acoustic grand for you young 'uns) around the seats. Or blow the gig and go without pay.
Is that your idea of "the best shows" and the union looking after your interests?
Move. That's what I did. I grew up in a mid-sized town (about 116,000 people) with 3 private colleges and an air force base, so there were bars EVERYWHERE, yet you'd be lucky to be booked at a bar that payed each bandmember more than $50 apiece--and no free booze or half-price anythings (nevermind the fact that by the time I left there were scores of dime-a-dozen metal bands banding together to play multi-band shows everywhere for next to nothing). So I moved a few hours west to a small metropolitan area where the bars actually pay the bands they booked and pay decently. The talent pool out here is much better that my old hometown also, so that's a big plus.
jive1
Commercial User
Bands that play for free affect the overall market. It's hard to dispute that. Ecologys, economies, and music scenes can all be affected by single factors. And sometimes single factors can have large effects, regardless of whether or not it's intended. I'm not going to go into the details, as it's been in argues in this and other similar threads.
But it is what it is. There's lots of professions who will compete against those who will work for free. Even lawyers compete against those who rather defend themselves, and doctors with mothers who can seem to cure anything. So what you have to do is get a competitive edge. There's many ways to do it, but you have to if you want to make a buck.
I'm not going to go into great detail, but you have to see where the needs are, find how you can fill those needs, and then meet those needs the best you can. How great the need, and how able you are to meet them will determine how much you make. Your competitive edge comes from how well you meet those needs compared to others who also can.
The issue here is that music isn't always a need, it's a want. Also, some folks don't really care to meet a need other than maybe their own, and they may conflict with the consumer's. Because of those two issues, the music biz, like other businesses can have some skewed economics because it's not cut and dry enough to make it a total commodity (though it often feels like it).
Like I said earlier, cover bands amd original bands have different models. Cover bands are about the performance, original bands are about the songs. Since an original band is about the song, it may make sense to do free gigs for exposure. I used to take a real hard line stance against bands playing for free, but to sell a song, it takes exposure. It's a rare song that people fall in love with right away from an unknown artist. It usually takes a few listens, if not many. In a cover band, usually the songs have already had lots of exposure so the listener can appreciate it. Unfortunately, most original bands don't have the connections or payola to get airplay or listed as a featured artist on a popular website. So the only way they can get the exposure for their songs is to play wherever they can, until they can get notice or give up.
That's why I told myself that I won't do original bands unless I'm the main songwriter. The amount of freebies and cheapies you'd have to do isn't worth it if in the end, you don't get the bucks because of the credits. But, I also wouldn't expect others to deal with making sacrifices on my behalf either, so I tend to refrain from original bands. But, I'm glad they are out there, so I can make money playing covers of their hits.
But it is what it is. There's lots of professions who will compete against those who will work for free. Even lawyers compete against those who rather defend themselves, and doctors with mothers who can seem to cure anything. So what you have to do is get a competitive edge. There's many ways to do it, but you have to if you want to make a buck.
I'm not going to go into great detail, but you have to see where the needs are, find how you can fill those needs, and then meet those needs the best you can. How great the need, and how able you are to meet them will determine how much you make. Your competitive edge comes from how well you meet those needs compared to others who also can.
The issue here is that music isn't always a need, it's a want. Also, some folks don't really care to meet a need other than maybe their own, and they may conflict with the consumer's. Because of those two issues, the music biz, like other businesses can have some skewed economics because it's not cut and dry enough to make it a total commodity (though it often feels like it).
Like I said earlier, cover bands amd original bands have different models. Cover bands are about the performance, original bands are about the songs. Since an original band is about the song, it may make sense to do free gigs for exposure. I used to take a real hard line stance against bands playing for free, but to sell a song, it takes exposure. It's a rare song that people fall in love with right away from an unknown artist. It usually takes a few listens, if not many. In a cover band, usually the songs have already had lots of exposure so the listener can appreciate it. Unfortunately, most original bands don't have the connections or payola to get airplay or listed as a featured artist on a popular website. So the only way they can get the exposure for their songs is to play wherever they can, until they can get notice or give up.
That's why I told myself that I won't do original bands unless I'm the main songwriter. The amount of freebies and cheapies you'd have to do isn't worth it if in the end, you don't get the bucks because of the credits. But, I also wouldn't expect others to deal with making sacrifices on my behalf either, so I tend to refrain from original bands. But, I'm glad they are out there, so I can make money playing covers of their hits.
Your "work" has no inherent value - only what one puts on it, or what others will exchange for it.
If you're happy with working for free - you're getting appropriate value for your work.
How would I feel about it?
Their bar, their business.
...and if it turns out to be a good money maker over having live bands - good business.
A lot of great info on this thread that reveals much.
First, music scenes vary from town to town, city to city.
Second, everyone WANTS to get paid to play music.
Third, creativity and flexibility are needed to, not just survive, but thrive in a music scene.
You can take a hard line stand and play ONLY if you get paid, but you may end up playing a lot less than you want. Or get paid very little.
Unless you can get EVERY musician in your scene to agree not to play for free, it will happen. And you will compete with it.
When I was in LA in the late 80s, most bands played for free or even paid to play on Sunset Strip. If a band showed up from the mid west and made some statement like "We demand to be paid for our art" that band just would not get any gigs. That is just how it was. You had to adapt or not play out just to keep your "integrity."
Whatever one chooses to do, ROCK ON!
First, music scenes vary from town to town, city to city.
Second, everyone WANTS to get paid to play music.
Third, creativity and flexibility are needed to, not just survive, but thrive in a music scene.
You can take a hard line stand and play ONLY if you get paid, but you may end up playing a lot less than you want. Or get paid very little.
Unless you can get EVERY musician in your scene to agree not to play for free, it will happen. And you will compete with it.
When I was in LA in the late 80s, most bands played for free or even paid to play on Sunset Strip. If a band showed up from the mid west and made some statement like "We demand to be paid for our art" that band just would not get any gigs. That is just how it was. You had to adapt or not play out just to keep your "integrity."
Whatever one chooses to do, ROCK ON!
I go into every situation for a booking 100% open minded. I then decide if this is good for the band or not. We played a gig a few weeks ago that didn't sound so good the pay was bad $50.00 flat rate ,free food and all the beer we could drink.The gig was to gain more exposure in an area we are trying to get a following in so we said OK.
We did the gig and it was alright decent crowd but we doubt we will play there again.We got the $50 plus another $30.00 in tips and drank high end beers and ate organic foods..nice time. We then went to a well known club in the area we had played once before as an opening act and ate dinner. We got to talk to the owner and told him we just played in the area, stopped in to eat and say hello, he was impressed. We just got a call and a chance at a headlining show at that bigger club last week.This club is one of the best in the city with good pay and exposure for the band.
I feel by pounding our name in that area of the city it is helping us become known not only to folks in the scene but promoters and other venues. Sometimes its not what you get paid its what can come of it later. You have to look beyond the money in an original band almost all the time.
We did the gig and it was alright decent crowd but we doubt we will play there again.We got the $50 plus another $30.00 in tips and drank high end beers and ate organic foods..nice time. We then went to a well known club in the area we had played once before as an opening act and ate dinner. We got to talk to the owner and told him we just played in the area, stopped in to eat and say hello, he was impressed. We just got a call and a chance at a headlining show at that bigger club last week.This club is one of the best in the city with good pay and exposure for the band.
I feel by pounding our name in that area of the city it is helping us become known not only to folks in the scene but promoters and other venues. Sometimes its not what you get paid its what can come of it later. You have to look beyond the money in an original band almost all the time.
Hey man, I don't appreciate you spying on me at band practice
But seriously, good point. Maybe the people selling FREE EXPOSURE have never been to a band practice and assume all of us are naturals.
I think your post is great, and I just wanted to comment on this little piece. Most arguments seems to overlook this phenomenon, but I think it needs to be examined. I understand that businesses want to make profit, but I truly believe this is where the problem lies: the "something-for-nothing" situation that another poster mentioned. If a band is bringing them customers, they should be paid. That's it.
This is why our current idea of capitalism fails/will fail (except for the minority, and it has the potential and likelihood to even bring them down eventually). But I will spare my further economic manifesto.
So me offering to help a friend move (for free), so they wouldn't have to hire someone, is worthless? They seemed to appreciate the work that I put in. And I enjoy helping.
Not all worth is monetary.
Pretty much no one does anything for free.
Lots of folks do things for non-monetary compensation though.
I've had experience in three very different music scenes.
1. In New Orleans, being a musician is still considered a valuable contribution to society. People support local live music, both originals and covers, and musicians are paid. A professional musician can easily make a living doing nothing but playing. The community of musicians is very tightly knit. A band showing up and playing for free would not be well received at all. This also happens to be my absolute favorite city for music- a vibrant scene of professionals who can play.
2. In Charleston, SC, there is a much smaller scene. There is very little demand for live music and most bars don't really care if they have bands or not. The generally accepted practice for unknown bands is a cut of the door, with usually some free drinks thrown in. Once a band can draw a decent crowd (anything over 50 people), they can negotiate a guarantee. Some bands do end up playing for free if they don't meet the minimum at the door (maybe 10 people). This is a pretty good music scene, with interesting bands and fun venues, but very few musicians making a living off their music.
3. Hell-Ay. The worst. An over-saturated mess of bad bands and greedy club owners. Most bands are more concerned with "making it" than making good music. Most unknown bands pay to play, and are usually stuck going on at 8pm as the first act of a 10-band showcase, getting maybe three songs in front of an empty bar, all for the dream that some Junior A&R will happen to hear them and make their dreams come true. There are a ton of professional musicians in town, though for the most part they make their living during the day doing studio work (of which there is a ton). Many of them play gigs at night, and I'm sure they aren't playing for free, but they may be playing for cheap.
So yes, the scene does matter most of all. I think the biggest thing determining the make-up of the three scenes I've had the most experience with is motivation of the artists. In New Orleans, most musicians aren't trying to "make it" on a national level. Some do, and over the last few years many have, but for the most part the musos I know are happy playing locally. In Charleston, no one expects to make it. Most bands are happy to get paid a little and be able to play what they like. In L.A., national success is the main motivation. No one cares about the L.A. scene because they all view it as jumping off point for the massive success that they just know is around the corner.
I'd just like to add that everyone loves the old "market sets the rate" line of thinking until its their line of work getting undercut. No one likes to see their job sent overseas to cheaper labor, or given over to illegal immigrants, or given over to more efficient machines.
