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Orleans - Dance With Me question

#21
Every time I saw Orleans Lance had a P. I used to go see them as Max's Kansas City in nyc quite a lot. One time I was so close my feet were resting on Wells's bass drum. I was closer to Wells than any of the band members. I had come from a rehearsal and had my Fender bass (in the big rectangular case) with me, which was certainly visible to the band. Lance looked a bit perturbed by it actually, I always felt a little guilty that maybe it's presence vibed him out a little. Anyway, there were a fantastic band live. Their first album pretty much sounds like them. The rest of the records sound like overproduced LA records, and sound nothing like what I saw.

They would start their shows with Larry playing keys. John would just burn on the guitar, of course. After a while Larry would pick up his guitar, and he was in the same league as John, which of course surprised and freaked out the audience. And then sometimes they would all switch instruments (John on drums I remember), and still sound like a pro band. They played She Loves You (Beatles) one night, and it was just sterling. I don't remember what amp Lance used, but I remember all their amps were small. Small Fenders for the guitars for sure. They didn't use volume to get over, which in the early 70s was somewhat refreshing.

Lance was a very very good player, but definitely got out-shadowed by the other players. Wells was an A-list drummer, just remarkable. What a great band they were.
 
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#22
JimmyM said:
Sorry...didn't know we were trying to replicate the exact sound to the letter.

Will say that the personalities of the players and their skill levels have a heck of a lot to do with it. That, more than anything, is the main ingredient. But I was just trying to help the dude get a little better tone for it. Didn't think he was joining an Orleans cover band set on recreating the exact circumstances for an Orleans tribute album.
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No, not trying to join a tribute band, lol. Just liked the tone so much that I wanted to try and get as close as possible, simply for the pleasure of it. COVID has me playing along with recordings to keep myself practicing, and I got a bit mesmerized by the bass tone in this song, so . . .

I've heard this song since it was in the top 40 when I was a kid. Never paid attention to the bass line until the last few years. The song is like the background music to my childhood so I never really dug into the musicianship in it until I really started playing more serious myself.
 
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#23
Owing to how many of us have had the experience of letting someone else play our instruments without changing the settings and sounding completely different than we do, it is easy to understand how this question isn't as important as how to achieve the overall sound. In defense of the Hoppens, trying to remember exactly what instruments were used on which takes of a particular song that ended up on the record can be tough. Especially when multiple takes are required to get it right and overdubs are done... Much easier to understand how to produce a variety of usable tones with your gear and match the one you're seeking.
 
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#25
bobyoung53 said:
I saw them in 1976-77 on their last tour and the bassist had a P bass. I've always thought it was a P bass on the record. They were very good live, too bad they broke up.

It was when this was on top:


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For what it's worth, 'Still the One" is definitely a Jazz IMO, both pickups on full, tone down. You can hear that signature jazz mid scoop during the octave slides in the bridge. Anyway, I digress.
 
#27
Checked it out reading the OP, and I agree with Jimmy and others, it seems like a jazz on the neck pickup. Anytime I hear that ‘hmm it has a Pbass vibe but it doesn’t really sound quite like a P’ vibe I immediately move to jazz neck.
 
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#29
This song reminds me of a Jazz, if I had to bet A 6-pack that's where I'd toss my cap.
But I'm chuckling a little because there's a dispute at all. I love Jazz basses and I also love P and have used both over the many years. And I know anecdotally that P is "the" studio bass. But this makes me wonder how many other recordings that are presumed to be P bass might actually be Jazz bass. There are a whole lot of Jazz basses out there and the sonic delta through production is pretty slim (unless it's 100% bridge pup, which ...eww).
I know many/most of us can tell a P from a J when we're in a live environment, facing an amp. But I wonder how accurate I would be picking out a P from a J through my car radio? I think if it was a really light production, a clean DI, maybe I could tell. But if it's mixed with any color at all I think I'd miss as many as I make.
 
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#30
I like this thread. It really brings back memories. I don't have an answer for your question but it seems several knowledgeable TalkBass folks have given you the answer.

I've always liked the bass line to Dance With Me. Back in the late 70s, I went to Peaches (a huge record store) and bought the 45 rpm record of this song just so that I could learn the bass line note for note by dropping the needle over and over again through out the song.

I still have that 45 rpm record!

Since the days of learning bass lines note for note from record, at age 32 back in 1983. I finally "bite the bullet" and took honest to god bass lessons from a jazz bass teacher. Learning among many things, basic music theory. Thus making the learning of bass lines like.........Dance With Me.........much, much easier.

Thank-you for this thread and the wonderful posts of information!

Great song! Great bass line. Great bassist!
 
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#33
I used to really pay attention to the modern jazz greats like Stanley Clarke and Marcus Miller and WISH I could play a fraction of their stuff. But as I've grown older, I'm discovering wonderful bass lines that I've heard, but not heard, all my life. I've grown to love great melodic bass lines from so many "old" pop and R&B songs and have lost interest in those amazing slappers. I've especially grown to appreciate the way so many of the early 70's bass players had a great sense of when a note or a fill is called for and where it's not. I have a natural tendency to "overplay" and I'm really gleaning a lot from the music of my youth.
 
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#34
JimmyM said:
the high frequencies got attenuated by the B-15 they used.
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The B-15 always seemed like a giant amplified LPF to me. As someone who liked the big "grand piano" tone of a Ric with rounds on it, I just hated running thru a B-15 for live work, buy any time I was in the studio, the engineer would insist I use it, and it always sounded great. (You would have never known it was a Ric though.)

Recently saw a youtube video of "Still The One". Bass player was using a P; sounded great. :thumbsup:
 
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#35
Ed455 said:
Anyone know what bass Lance Hoppen played in Orleans for "Dance With Me"?

I have no problem playing it, but trying to get that tone. I assumed, based on the time period that it was probably a P bass probably with flats. I cannot get that singing midrange that Lance got on my P bass. Too scooped in the middle I think, I am playing a Yammie BBP35 and when I get up on the G string it's too thin with these Elixir rounds. I can get close with my Lakland DJ-5 but cannot quite nail it and when I get close, the finger slide starts getting too noisey. I can kinda get close on my Ray with the switch all the way back, but not as close as the DJ-5.

I figure if I can find what bass he played that might give me some more direction to get that tone that he puts down in that song. All the photos I find show him holding a P bass or a J bass, in similar numbers of photos. I have nothing with flat wounds on it, so that might be the key. Could also be great studio mixing that get the magic, I guess.
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Jazz, flats, fingers, compression...would be my guess.
 
#37
JimmyM said:
About a year before Larry Hoppen died, Bass Player magazine did an article on that song. Larry actually played the bass on it, and Lance and Larry both agreed the bass had rounds and was recorded direct + B-15 mic'ed, but Larry says he used a 70's Precision that belonged to the studio while Lance insists it was his 61 Jazz. I think you could do it on either, and they have over the years, but when I hear that original recording, I think it's a Jazz.
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Not sure if it was Jazz or a P, one thing for sure, it was a Fender Bass and a great bass part by a great bassist.
 
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#39
In some circles yacht-rock is looked down upon, but it was all made by bands that knew the craft of songwriting and were top level singers and players. This is an excellent book for those that would be so inclined:
61Pm-nnTzUL._SX351_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
 
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#40
red_rhino said:
The B-15 always seemed like a giant amplified LPF to me. As someone who liked the big "grand piano" tone of a Ric with rounds on it, I just hated running thru a B-15 for live work, buy any time I was in the studio, the engineer would insist I use it, and it always sounded great. (You would have never known it was a Ric though.)

Recently saw a youtube video of "Still The One". Bass player was using a P; sounded great. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...


The late 60's and 70's B-15's with the ultra lo and bright switches have plenty of treble. They can sound like small SVT's. I bought one of the last ones brand new leftover during the early 80's, it was clear as a bell, beautiful sounding amp.
 
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