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Double Bass Other pickups-questions..shadow/vektor/full circle/ehrlund

bassfacer22

bassfacer22

Sep 3, 2011
1,709
445
North America NorthEast area..
#1
Hey Guys,

I'm on that pickup kick..

1. Who knows about the Vektor Kontramike and if you have to drill holes in your bridge etc to install it?


2. Does the Wilson SINGLE element have to be installed by drilling into the bridge or can it be stuck on with something?


3. For the Shadow 951 with two transducers that goes in the wings of the bridge (not the feet ones!)
Is there problems with having the two transducers over the one? Phase issues??


4. Lastly, How do all these sound compared to just getting a full circle ??
 
#2
1. Very few people use the Vektor Kontramike. Jonas may knew it...
I don't think you need any holes drilled for it.
But I'm a bit afraid, that it may get loose and fall off or you need to remove and install it every time you move the bass and since you never get the same pressure, the sound might be different each time. But this is only guessing...

2. For the Wilson (K1) a hole needs to be drilled.

3. The Shadow SH-951 is the SINGLE element version, the double element version is the SH-950.

Read the Underwood pickup threads.

Because you have a 5-string, you are safer with the two-element version, but it might depend on the soundpost position if the single element version works well or not. A single element is clearer, but might lack volume on the strings on the opposite side of the pickup.

4. The Wilson K1 in the bridge foot will probably be closest to the Full Circle, since it sits at (more or less) the same position.

A central question is how much bow playing you do amplified. The more you do, the more distant from the strings you want to have your pickup.
 
#3
Ok that solves that.

Ok yes, Forget the Vektor, too many variables.. pressure and moving it all the time from setting the bridge back up etc..

Forget the Wilson, there won't be any holes drilled in the bridge..

Forget the Single element version of the shadow because I'm basing my experience with the K&K bassmax (only one element on the bass side wing) and it was only loud on the E and A string.. the G-string was too soft.. So i'm assuming the same thing will happen if I get the Shadow single element..

I am considering the Shadow 950 double element because I don't want the same thing to happen with the single side wing element.. I think I need both wings filled..

I also like the sound of the Shadow 950 compared to the other one that goes under the feet of the bridge.. the comparison videos on youtube are so obvious to decide which is better..

My Bow Arco playing is limited to basically long tones and drones and endings of songs ... occasionally there is a bow solo etc.. But I do want whatever I get to have a nice sound.. (as you've seen from my my other threads i'm getting the ehrlund!)

thanks for the reply.. ( i need a good secondary backup pickup) I'm tired of the Realist,Lifeline,K&Kbassmax,Fishman bp-100, or anything that sounds twangy and quacky and muffled..
 
#4
Try the B-Band D1. Has a preamp built in to the jack, piezo elements for bridge wings and under the bridge foot all in one unit. Warm, round tone and a pan pot to adjust balance between bridge & body sound. IMHO, best pickup out there.
 
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#8
+ 1 on the B-Band D-1: I use only 1 element on the E side of my bridge (NO "foot" element or G wing element is used). This pickup sounds very full and warm, with none of the piezo "clack/quack", on my bass. It utilizes a different transducer element technology (electret film) NOT piezo crystals.
The Customer Service Rep in the US is:
Pekka Rintala
[email protected]

I'm not sure why this pickup is not more popular.
Thanks.
 
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#10
The B-Band doesn't seem to be very robust, since the "cables" from the sensor elements to the preamp/jack is a foil for all three sensors. The Full Circle cable is really robust compared to the foil. I've stayed away from the B-Band for that reason, what doesn't mean it might not sound good.

There is no way to get the best pickup for your instrument in the first place, since every instrument and players taste is different.
Buying used is a good idea in most cases to keep the losses low. If you need something quickly and therefor have to buy it new, you loose more money if you don't like it.
 
#13
To my understanding so far- The microphone or contact type of microphone is the answer.. or end all "pickup" that I'm looking for to replicate a clearer tone...

It sounds exactly as each "different" bass sounds right? I guess depending on the type and quality of the speakers and electronics in the amp are the only deterring factors next down the line...

If I see this correctly..- The dpa and EHRLUND mic's problem (to my knowledge) isn't sound or quacking piezo or things like mess with your bridge height and they don't depend on pressure.. Their problem is positioning on the bass.. To get the best sound near in front of the bass yes?

The key is to figure out how to isolate them to the bass alone.. Feedback is apparently is an issue..

Not figuring out how to EQ a quack or nasal tone out of the bass.. I hope!

I'll see when I get them..
 
#14
bassfacer22 said:
god dam#$#@.. i just spent $1000+ on pickups and now I get told there is better technology and a pickup i've never heard of that solves the quack nasal tone of piezo pickups..
Click to expand...

While I admire your zeal and enthuasim, understand that new pickups are coming to market all the time. Trying to keep up with new models, is like trying to swim in quicksand. During the course of my performing career I've purchased the following pickups.

Barcus Berry Ehrlund

Polytone

Tonenings Magnetic

Underwood

Realist

Revolution Solo
 
#15
A major sound guy just mentioned to me that the best he's ever heard an upright bass with a pickup was some "pickup that went into the wings of the bridge.."

Of course he can't remember the name of it.. Go figure!

Anyway,
I just don't know why people dont have the answer yet! It seems pretty simple- what gives the clearest tone and replicates the closest sound to your bass.. ?

It's like I'm wasting all this money but it's all been the same and keeps coming back to the same answer.. Which I didn't have to spend over $1000 to find out.. But at least now I'll see the truth about the full circle and the EHRLUND contact mic..

The only other thing is the DPA mic.. And I'm very close to ordering that..

I have sound examples I should post up so you guys can hear it to believe it.. I'm not crazy.. I just want the clear kind of sound that apparently only microphones can produce..

I'm finished with the realist and any thing remotely close to going under feet of bridges or that have to somehow change the bridge.. It's ridiculous that they even put things like that out on the market..

I'm so frustrated with this because I've just used the lifeline tonight and it was so terrible because it raised my bridge of course and totally threw off the feel of the bass and then it sounded like a whale trying to sing the lowest notes a whale can even sing underwater.. And the lifeline goes on the adjuster wheel..

It's not my technique and all that crap.. It's a pickup problem and it's not replicating what I hear when I play naturally unamplified..

Which I have a video of and will post up when I get a good internet upload speed.(I'm traveling on a cruise ship right now)


It may have been theAmp or room or whatever but it doesn't replicate the sound at all I'm looking for.. Even if it did, it ruined the awesome feel of my bass.. So can't use it..

I can post up a video of how smooth my bass plays with no pickups to ruin the feel.. Ha. I probably could play flight of the bumblebee with my fingers it feels so good without any obtrusive pickups!

(Maybe I'll try to learn that ha)


It's like all this and that and in the end the microphone seems to be the answer.. Then people just say the full circle sounds really good and then there is no way in hell anyone can make me believe the realist sounds good.. Ha.


I mean so far it's down to just a mic.. And if you can't use a mic, then the contact mic.. If you can't use that, then everybody days the full circle.. Then I'm out of options if the full circle doesn't cut it..


September 13th I'll hear the truth.. (As long as my packages arrive!)
 
#16
The Full Circle can sound good and bad. It depends on the flatness of the contact area of the bridge and the rotation angle. If the contact area of the bridge with the full circle is not flat it can (but must not neccessarily) ruin the piezo crystals because the whole pressure goes on one of the four.
When I first installed the Full Circle it sounded awful. I was close to return it, but then experimented with the rotation and found a position that worked well. (The contact area of my bridge might not be plan and perpendicular to the adjuster axis, but it's not too bad.)
Similar things with a bridge wing piezo (Shadow SH-950): the pressure on the pickup can ruin the sound if it's too much. And if it's too less it might simply fall out of the bridge wing while playing.
You never get the acoustic sound with a pickup (even not with a contact mic), because you get the vibration on a specific position of the bass that might be very different to the acoustic radiation of the top in some distance.
Often you don't want the original sound of the instrument, because you won't get through the band well. I tried my Ehrlund at home with my amp and found a position where amplified bowing sounded exactly as the acoustic bowing, but on a gig the pizz didn't come through well (somebody else played on my bass and I could listen in some distance).
It might depend on the group if you can use the acoustical amplified sound or not. I would say the smaller the group, the quieter the group and the less frequency overlap it would work that way. But anything else may need something a bit more "aggressive" to get through well.
I think you need at least a month or two to check your pickups at home and on stage and make the adjustments needed for them on your bass until you can finally decide. And the Full circle might need the other bridge or a new one...

For the DPA and most other mics: don't expect the to work with an amp. It might work in some situations, but this is more luck than anything else. They are very nice for FOH. But expect to use a pickup or contact mic for your amp.
 
#17
here is the eminence bass with no amp and just played acoustically.. I actually have the realist under the E-foot.. but its tiny so it doesn't seem to impact the bridge height.. but when I plug it into the amp and play with a band, It sounds like a box and just not the sound at all like it does acoustically..


Sorry for all the clacking noise! I just watched this now and it's pretty noisy haha.. But the point is you can see how easy it is to play and do trills and turns etc..

 
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#18
It will never sound like the original, since you need a speaker to amplify.
An orchestra will never sound like an orchestra recording over some speakers, so your bass will never sound like your bass when amplified.
The best is a good approximation and since it is not the same opinion may differ what could be tolerated and what cannot. So the only thing you can do is try and replace the actual equipment with better stuff (which is highly subjective).
The search for the best thing on earth can get very costly over time and sometimes people come back to something the used earlier and abandoned it.
Try to find something that works, even if it's far from being perfect, and maybe once in a while when some used stuff comes around that you can sell again without too much losses get it, try it for a while and if you are sure which fits better, sell the other one. It is really important to find stuff that is at least acceptable to you. And remember, a good installation can make something bad acceptable or better.
If you think nothing of the stuff out there is good enough to use, get jobs where you can play purely acoustical.

BTW, that many attacks in a short time are quite difficult to amplify. You need at least a low pass filter. Every attack gets some short time low frequency mud. Playing that many notes in a short time gives you mostly mud amplified. Learn to use your equipment to shape the sound and play what works amplified. You might ask Renaud Garcia-Fons how he handles the amplification, since he sometimes plays as much as you do when doing that flamenco stuff.
 
#19
+1
Playing that quickly might be lovely for solos, but it isn't necessarily a good way to evaluate the sound of a pickup.
The DPA works great FOH, but it's problematic into an amplifier. I recommend trying each of the pickups you ordered
one at a time, for a couple of months and recording the results. Choose the one you like best and sell the others.

Ric:)
 
#20
Haha guys I'm playing all that racket fast because I'm just showing you how the bass fells good to me and allows me to jump around like that..

I'm not really playing the gig like that and I'm not comparing pickups by how fast I play haha..

I'm just trying to show you that's how smooth the bass feels with out some stupid pickup changing the bridge height or feel of the bass..

But yes at this point I am supposed to have the EHRLUND , full circle, and the shadow 950 soon
 

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