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Outdoor gig minimum

#62
Outdoors with no PA support? Yikes…

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I know there’s better, but the most I’ve got is 1,000 ss watts…

I can turn it down if I have to.
 
#63
I played a outdoor festival back in the 90's and got by with two peavey 4X12's,one18" 800-1500 ppl. elevated stage, and you do have to EQ different outside, kick the mids up. Fairs and such can be real challenging cause if they are small time they like to control the PA and boards which will most likely suck for you
 
#64
Big Brother said:
I am playing my first gig in a month which will be at an outdoor party with ~400 people. slightly elevated and overlooking the ocean so nothing will be reflected back.

I thought I'd be OK but now I'm not sure, would a MB 210 combo driving a Schroeder 1012 do it? I've heard people compare each to a 410 but it seems every cab ever talked about on the internet compares to a 410. You see guys in the Radio Shack forums talking about their clock radios comparing to 410s.

Will I really be pumping a pair of virtual 410s up there?
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The voicing of the Schroeder will help a lot. I get away with my 1212L and a LMII at 90% of our outdoor gigs PA or not. If I need more, my 21012 is the next choice and my 810e as a final option. I could go bigger (easily) but then phase issues and the such come into play. I even question mixing the 10s and 12 in my 21012 cab but it seems to work fine.
A lot of it has to do with tone preferences and realizing what you hear on stage will not be what's heard out front. Just keep real expectations of your gear throughout the band and you'll be fine. We work about 150 of our 170 gigs in a year with Mackies on a stick indoor and out. It's fine as long we're not expecting several hundred in the crowd or to put on a metal or hip hop concert. At a large festival gig, we bring different more appropriate gear.
 
#66
Haven't read the whole thread, but our band does a small town street dance or two every year. We're a "classic rock" band, sort of.

I have more than enough with my Shuttle 6.0 and Neox 212. Guys running the sound have told me to turn it down, even with PA support.

But it's not a huge stage infront of 10,000 people either.
 
#67
billfitzmaurice said:
Divide 1130 by the frequency for approximate wavelength in feet. Approximate, as it's affected by ambient temperature, humidity and barometric pressure, but the result's close enough, except in Denver when it's 95 degrees and raining. :p
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OK, so unless you are just making up random factoids to troll us all :p there is an underlying science to what you're saying here. Your response still raises questions, like why 1130 feet? What is "the" frequency when a bass has over 3 octaves of fundamentals plus harmonics? How do composition, height and surface area of wall affect this? What difference if any does it make if the speaker is vented, and if so does front or rear venting change things? And so on.

Could I possibly trouble you to (a) add a brief summary of the core facts you are basing your answers on or (b) post a link to same somewhere or (c) give an overall topic area so those of us so inclined can do some research, please?

Edit : Reread the thread and realised the topic to research is "spatial loading". Bill answered the q b4 I asked it. Doh.
 
#68
fingerbun said:
OK, so unless you are just making up random factoids to troll us all :p there is an underlying science to what you're saying here. Your response still raises questions, like why 1130 feet? What is "the" frequency when a bass has over 3 octaves of fundamentals plus harmonics? How do composition, height and surface area of wall affect this? What difference if any does it make if the speaker is vented, and if so does front or rear venting change things? And so on.

Could I possibly trouble you to (a) add a brief summary of the core facts you are basing your answers on or (b) post a link to same somewhere or (c) give an overall topic area so those of us so inclined can do some research, please?
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He's given the science about a million times on this forum - he's Bill Fitzmaurice, dude. He knows that of which he speaks.
 
#70
fingerbun said:
What is "the" frequency when a bass has over 3 octaves of fundamentals plus harmonics? How do composition, height and surface area of wall affect this?
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I can answer those two.

1. The wavelength will be different at different frequencies. If you plug in your distance away from the wall into the formula Bill gave instead of frequency, everything below the frequency result will be affected by quarter loading.


2.
billfitzmaurice said:
If the wall is of solid construction, at least 1 wavelength in dimension, and the cab baffle is less than one quarter wavelength away from it you'll get quarter-space loading.
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#71
thats a broad question, many variables to fill in. is the band loud? are you battling a double marshall stack or a fender twin ? how far do you stand from you amp? are the drummers sticks thicker than your thumb? you say no pa, so that makes the requirements much different. i would say the minimum is a pair of svt (or any 8x10) cabs. one 8x10 will just be lost in the sauce unless you are playing gospel music. if you can find one of those acoustic 18 inch folded horns (i had one!) it would be louder than the two 8x10. its nice when the bass (more like lower midbass) tickles your chest 15 feet away with 300 watts at an outdoor gig and you do not have your ears struggling to hear yourself. slap a 2x10 on top for mids and highs and i think you would be happy. johnny a.
 
#74
fingerbun said:
OK, so unless you are just making up random factoids to troll us all :p there is an underlying science to what you're saying here. Your response still raises questions, like why 1130 feet? .
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That's the speed of sound under average weather conditions at sea level; actually 1126, but why nitpick?

If you want to learn about this stuff these are as good sources as any to start with:
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[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#75
I did an outdoor show last summer, elevated stage in front of a big cement wall (the back wall of a building). About 100-150 people. I didn't plug into the PA cause they had too many other things plugged in. I ran my GK 800RB head into a 4 ohm 2x15 cab, and it sounded good I was told. That 2x15 weighs a ton though.

Fyi the bass player in the band before me at that gig ran the same head (GK 800RB) into 2 single 15 cabs, didn't notice the brand. He sounded fine too, and I was standing mid crowd.
 
#76
Russell L said:
Well, I'd be at 500w with the 121H cab added to my 121H combo. They're the same size, virtually. I've played the 121H combo with the festival band many times before, but mostly indoors, but always with PA support. It does ok if the drums aren't too loud in the stage mix.

If this doesn't work I will have to start all over with a separate head and different cabs, and then I will be ducking the broom my wife will be swinging at me for a LONG time. We just got our state tax refund, and it will foot the bill, ...AND she is willing to let me spend the $500 for the 121H cab now. Sheesh, actually, I guess I have to decide if I'm gonna be playing much for big, loud gigs. Not much...unless something big happens, but it's not like I'm trying to "make it" anymore. Been there, sorta, now I'm more relaxed. Heck, at 61 sometimes I wonder how much longer I can do this at all.

No, no, I didn't say that. I'll probably die onstage, though, on an F#, LOL.:smug:
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Well there's no way I would purchase something for one gig, certainly not if it's out of price range and would cause marital discord. I played a lot of outdoor gigs with my old Mark IV head and a 210 peavey cab, so if you think this is the type of gig your Mark IV and the two 1x15 peavey cabs handled (especially considering that the old deep peavey 2x15 was louder and lower than two of their old 1x15 cabs IME), then you don't need a stupid loud rig.

Despite having more watts, your proposed rig probably won't be as loud (certainly not as low) as the rig I used to use (which is mostly similar to your old rig). It very well might be as loud, but the low end might suffer a tad. If there's any way you can do a practice run at the site, that would help you out. Stage volume doesn't faze me, the important thing is how it sounds out front.

If you're not the only band to play in that venue you might be able to see about using someone else's cab. Also, you have to be careful how you do this, but there are some ways to combine a couple of rigs that can help. I've been at some events where we ended up combining a couple smaller bass rigs brought by two players to end up letting them "cut it" volume wise at the event.
 
#78
Well, I'm not buying just for one particular gig, but rather trying to get something that will generally cover most situations. Like I said, the more I think about it, if it's a large outdoor thing I'm sure PA support will be available, so I don't even know why I'm worried about it.

"sparktone," I have played many outdoor gigs with my Trace Elliot 115 at 200w without PA support and did alright when things weren't too loud, also with the old Peavey Mark IV and just one 115 cab (my 115s weren't the deep kind, and just had Scorpions in them). I don't have thatpeavey rig anymore, but that ok, I don't wanna carry it.

Just trying to get going with this new small stuff. I've been impressed with my Markbass CMD 121H combo, but then again I'm not in a metal band. Everything I do right now is oldies, some jazz, some country, nothing overly loud.

I'm still debating, though, because now if I get the extra 112 cab I'll be in even deeper if I decide it's not gonna work. Tonight's the night to order, my wife says. I might best take advantage of it. Either that or just hold off until after tomorrow's outdoor gig, and think some more.

You guys have helped the thinking process a lot. Thanks to all!
 
#79
well heck, the extra extension cab will come in handy (it is the same cab/driver that's in your combo right?) If so, stack that thing vertically and you should love the sound if you like the sound of your combo already.

I generally won't get involved with an outdoor gig of larger proportions unless they have a PA that shall handle bass and everything else. Not only is that a pain for you (having to bring some monster rig), but it's not fair for the audience. With gigs of that size, it will generally sound terrible unless it's being done right.
 
#80
IvanMike said:
well heck, the extra extension cab will come in handy (it is the same cab/driver that's in your combo right?) If so, stack that thing vertically and you should love the sound if you like the sound of your combo already.

I generally won't get involved with an outdoor gig of larger proportions unless they have a PA that shall handle bass and everything else. Not only is that a pain for you (having to bring some monster rig), but it's not fair for the audience. With gigs of that size, it will generally sound terrible unless it's being done right.
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Yep, the extension cab will be the same size as the combo, within an inch, or so. They'll look good together, too. I think your thinking is where my thinking is going on this.
 

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