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Outdoor gig minimum

R

Russell L

Mar 5, 2011
5,620
1,363
Cayce, SC
#1
Ok, I tried the search, but didn't get what I want. I'm not suggesting anything here. Just wanna see what you folks have to say. But here's the scenario: classic rock, country, blues---outdoor gig and NO PA support. (And if ya wanna discuss outdoor WITH PA, ok).

What's the minimum in watts and cab configurations that you'd want? How small could you go? Just curious.
 
#4
Depends upon the type of music etc. Outdoors you are at a huge disadvantage compared to the drums and guitars. The guitars will probably sound just as loud, if not better due to lack of room modes and the epic slap back delay they will get from nearby geography.
Drums will lose the bass drum without PA support, but the rest of the kit also probably sounds better outside. Bass sounds louder indoors because you get half or quarter space reinforcement of your low notes from the room.
So if you EQ for a midrangey tone you should be fine with a couple hundred tube watts, or maybe 3-400 solidstate. I would want a 2x15 or 4x10. If you actually want to carry the low end outdoors, look for 8x10 or two, and maybe 800 watts or better. (or really drive the hell out of a 300 watt tube head.
 
#5
Bring everything you've got. Use what you need. If that's everything, so be it.

Last outdoor gig I did I used 2 sets of 2x10 over 1x15, biamped. The head was a WT800A. We got rain, so we moved indoors, and I only needed the 2x15 setup loafing to fill the 200' x 100' venue.
 
#7
Well, I know I didn't give much info, but really I was just wanting some general ideas about what some of ya'll do. I play outdoors once in awhile in different environments. It's not like a concert stage usually, though. And crowds range from 100-200, or less. Mostly, restaurant/bar gigs, but a festival here and there. Sometimes the odd outdoor country club gig. Nothing overly loud, but just loud enough. I CAN get PA support, though, for most of it. I guess that's gonna have to be my option since I just can't carry all the stuff like I used to. My little MB 121H combo covers the small venues on its own, so I will probably add another 12 cab and get what I can out of that. But, for concert-sized stages, of course, the PA is the way. I will say that my bud's 450w 410 (a Behringer no less) was nice sounding through the PA Saturday night. It was in a medium large club.

I guess this is all about me getting old more than anything, and wondering what I'm gonna do to get the most I can with the least. Quickest thing is to add a 12 cab to my Markbass combo, and hope for the best. Otherwise, I'd have to start all over with a separate head and pick different cabs. 2x210 might do better than 2x12, I would think, but again I already have the 112 in a combo.

Just any comments at all are appreciated. I'm just scratching my head (still a little hair up there, and down my back, lol). Thanks, folks.
 
#8
Personally, for club 'beer gardens', I've gotten away with a single 410...but usually take a 610. Most beer gardens around here range from about 75' x 200' not covered to 100' x 100' with a rain awning. All have some type of privacy fence, which helps.

Although, we did play a county fair a few years ago where the FOH got smoked in a lightning storm the night before (we where called and told of this). Anyway, I set a 410 on top of a 115 on both sides of the stage, punched the mid's up and ran mine and the drummers IEM's out of my amps direct out. I walked out through the crowd a couple times, and although it would have sounded much better with FOH, it sounded fine...The kick drum did get lost, though.
 
#9
Impossible to say except by event.

Most of the time I get by with two single driver cabs (a BE 15 and BE 12), and although I technically am running them at 650 watts, I'm not using anywhere near that. This does just just fine for most smaller sized (under a grand) events. In the smaller end of those I could get by with a single 15.

Some really large ones have had me take out twice that. But to be honest, that's getting crazy. By the time an outdoor event gets big, you need a good PA to put everything through.
 
#10
Although it's really impossible to say for sure without lots of information, I will say, in my experience, a good 4x10(SWR in my case) with either my 300 watt GK800RB or my 500 watt MarkBass head behind it will do just fine. I've done rather large festival type gigs on large stages with loud bands this way without issues.
No PA? Better double that.
 
#11
Thanks RDT. That sounds like a great sounding set-up.

I miss my old Peavey 115 cabs. I know where they are, but they're 4 ohms, so I can't use but one, and it wouldn't handle the Markbass, I'm afraid. That's just it, my Markbass CMD 121H has the Little Mark II in it. I've thought of modifying in such a way as to remove the head, put a cover on it, and buy a neo 410 at 4 ohms, or get two at 8 each. If the head would go in and out of the combo easily I would have lots of options that way.

Lord, my wife is never gonna understand all this.:rollno:
 
#15
I've played outdoors w/just a small club PA many times for crowds of up to about 200, even w/an 8-piece band. If you're looking to fill a baseball stadium, feel free skip this advice.

Drums & bass carry outdoors... Surely we've all heard a parade at a distance? Guitars & steels can get a iittle lost, but I've never, ever gotten a complaint the guitar was too low if the guitar amp exceeds about 50 watts. The real challenge is always an adequate vocal level (at least for a band wq/harmonies and multi-vocalists. The overall moderate volume required to accomplish this is the reason you don't need too much kick & bass in the mains. In the interest of preserving highs, I'd recommend a sub for lows, even if you might not need do so for the same PA inside.

In general, unlike small systems indoors, I'd recommend micing everybody to achieve this kind of level control in the mains. If your board is input-limited you may want a tiny mixer to sub-mix the drums if the drummer is a mic freak. Keep the master moderate and you'll please a small crowd. Ob-viously, a crowd in excess of around 200 needs a louder approach, whether indoors or out.
 
#16
TomB said:
Drums & bass carry outdoors... Surely we've all heard a parade at a distance?
Click to expand...
+1

Guitars & steels can get a iittle lost, but I've never, ever gotten a complaint the guitar was too low if the guitar amp exceeds about 50 watts.
Click to expand...

Also, even if the guitar is exceeds 50 watts, guitars cab being very directional, my complaint is that out in front of the cabs, they might be blasting but if you move off axis a bit, they get toned down a lot and if you move to the other side of the stage, you can't well at all most of the time.

My suggestion and practice(w/o PA support) is to have a guitar cab on each side of the drums; on the bass cab side, put the guitar cab on the outside of the bass cab, depending on the size of the cabs. Preferably tilt the bass cab as well, if possible. Or possibly put it up on a stand.

Be sure the guitar cab behind the guitar player is not blocked by standing in front of it and preferably it's tilted at the guitar player's ears so he/she can really hear themselves.

Based on the above, the band balance needs to be set at least 50 feet out front and also give a listen at the rear of the venue as well.

Many bands I've seen stand too close to their amps even when there is lots of space available.

For the bass, at least 200-300w and a 2x15 or 4x10, depending on the venue.
 
#17
I've played an private outdoor party of about 200-250 for most of the last few years. I just bring my normal rig: 500W amp and two 1x12 cabs. But this is a low volume gig. People want to be able to talk without shouting.

Again, it comes back to the fact I only have to keep up with the drums. Any louder and the balance is off anyway. Making things worse is not going to help.
 
#18
I played under a tent once, which is acoustically outdoors, 1 x 15 and about 180W available, not a whole lot of bottom end in evidence. Which isn't surprising with the lack of room gain reinforcement.

You'd need some stupid amount of gear to come only halfway to making that room gain back so don't even bother.
 
#19
A grill and cold beer.

Also, at least 500 watts and a 410 regardless of PA support. Right now I have a 210 and if I ever had to to an outdoor gig without a PA support you'd better believe I'd rent or borrow another cab.
 
#20
TomB said:
Drums & bass carry outdoors... Surely we've all heard a parade at a distance?
Click to expand...
Midrange carries, bass and treble do not. The reason you hear the drums of a marching band better/more than the rest is that treble and upper mid gets soaked up by human bodies and architecture. The bass and low mids are less directional.
Marching bands sound much different when you hear them out in a field than in a parade right?

Still, you get a drumset (with a single drummer) outside and that kick is gonna need support in anything but the most polite bands.
 

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