Over-population.

[jomahu]

Put it this way, if Eugenics were put into place many of the greatest minds in history would not have been born. Bill Clinton would never have been president

lowsound

and g.w. would have still been born. J/K

 

[iamlowsound]

and g.w. would have still been born. J/K

Very good point. Best argument I have heard against eugenics.

lowsound

 

[ric1312]

yes, but race is just a smokescreen for CLASS. race doesn't exist.

you want to control the population? give women and men access to proper and safe reproductive education and options. and yes, that includes sterilization WITH THEIR CONSENT. i don't think anyone wants to bring a child into this world knowing that he/she can't provide for it.

oh yeh, and tell men to stop raping women and girls and getting them pregnant.

I'm sorry but race does exsist. Yes, all human, but differenct species or races of human. If you put full blooded black/white/asian/latino ect... next to each other and measured all phsyical traits you would plainly see that their are very real physical differences brought about by evironment and breeding.

Just because you say race does not exsist does not make is so.

You are also overlooking the fact that many cultures would not even consider self sterilzation. And many people no matter how many condoms are thrown at them will simply refuse to use them and have no forethought about if a child will be conceived while they satiate their lust.

I seriously doubt that the population is exploding because of rape.

 

[Philbiker]

Bill clinton not being born would have arguably been a good thing. The fact that you think Bill Clinton is one of the greatest minds in history is yet another positive agument for selective breeding.

Great minds rise above and show themselves as great minds.

Your reasoning is very backwards.

LOL. his reasoning is backwards....

 

[jomahu]

I'm sorry but race does exsist. Yes, all human, but differenct species or races of human. If you put full blooded black/white/asian/latino ect... next to each other and measured all phsyical traits you would plainly see that their are very real physical differences brought about by evironment and breeding.

Just because you say race does not exsist does not make is so.

You are also overlooking the fact that many cultures would not even consider self sterilzation. And many people no matter how many condoms are thrown at them will simply refuse to use them and have no forethought about if a child will be conceived while they satiate their lust.

I seriously doubt that the population is exploding because of rape.

ok, dude, whatever you say...btw, i actually can say so, because i don't belong to any race.

 

[ric1312]

ok, dude, whatever you say...btw, i actually can say so, because i don't belong to any race.

So, what are you saying? You are of mixed race heritage, so you think you are neither or that you are an alien from another planet?

 

[ric1312]

I'm out of this before it turns ugly.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

So, what are you saying are of mixed race heritage, so you think you are neither or that you are an alien from another planet?

Why are you arguing with everyone? What's the matter, you need a hug?

 

[iamlowsound]

Why are you arguing with everyone? What's the matter, you need a hug?

Make sure you wear gloves if you hug maki

lowsound

 

[jomahu]

So, what are you saying? You are of mixed race heritage, so you think you are neither or that you are an alien from another planet?

yes, that is exactly what i am saying.

you are free to believe what you want. so am i. your beliefs are equally as invalid as mine are.
i can assure you, though, that any attempt made on your part to profile me 'racially' would be a dreadful yet amusing adventure....

 

[ric1312]

Why are you arguing with everyone? What's the matter, you need a hug?

Yes please.

 

[ric1312]

yes, that is exactly what i am saying.

you are free to believe what you want. so am i. your beliefs are equally as invalid as mine are.
i can assure you, though, that any attempt made on your part to profile me 'racially' would be a dreadful yet amusing adventure....

So you are part this and part that, doesn't mean different races of humans doen't exist.

By all accounts that will be true one day when everyone mingles so much you can't tell the difference, but it isn't true right now.

I'm not talking about, "beliefs," I'm talking about distinct genetic differences between races.

And I'm out, for real this time.

 

[iamlowsound]

So you are part this and part that, doesn't mean different races of humans doen't exist.

By all accounts that will be true one day when everyone mingles so much you can't tell the difference, but it isn't true right now.

Recent studies have shown the same amount of genetic difference within a given race as between races. Leading many to believe that there really is no genetic makeup that determines race.

lowsound

 

[jomahu]

do some research on the creation of race, ric. you'll see what i mean.

 

[ric1312]

Recent studies have shown the same amount of genetic difference within a given race as between races. Leading many to believe that there really is no genetic makeup that determines race.

lowsound

MMMM sounds like a badly done study.

Why do most races have very specific build and facial characteristics that occur with great prevalance in that race? Obviously something makes it happen. A Japanese person born in Africa is still going to look like a Japanese person so it's not just environment.

 

[Jared Lash]

I'm reasonably sure Einstein would be able to get himself out of a hostile social evironement.

He did. He left Germany in 1933 after Hitler was made chancellor. But I guess those other Jewish scientists weren't as smart since they were put to death. Hitler and the Nazis are thrown around far too often on message boards in an attempt to make a point, but in this case it is germane to the topic at hand. Hitler's concept of eugenics, namely that the sick, lame, mentally disabled, or psychologically impaired along with the Jews were polluting the gene pool.

Obviously, we recognize this as an evil that was perpetrated, but it demonstrates the eternal problem with the entire concept, namely, who gets to decide who can or cannot have children, who gets to live and who gets to die?

James Watson, one of the biggest figures in science in the last century favors a sort of personal eugenics. He believes that genetic testing should be done on every fetus with the option of aborting given to every family, though he himself clearly believes that pregnancies that will result in a child with Downs Syndrome or who would be homosexual should be terminated. I find his type of eugenics repugnant as well, but perhaps his views are more in line with yours. He advocates genetically altering fetuses to make smarter children and prettier girls. He's also made remarks that he believes blacks to be genetically less intelligent than whites. His type of eugenics seems fairly close to your own ideas.

As far as "de-evolving", this is a misunderstanding of biology. But if you are simply stating that deleterious genes are increasing among the world's population, the short answer is "So?" I'm near sighted. In a world where the human population was actually determined by natural selection via predation, I would have likely been killed. But instead I simply wear contacts. People who are born blind, deaf, crippled or with disorders that were fatal in years past are now treated or aided in order to live out their lives.

People often argue that people need better education and chances in life, when in reality what society needs is tighter controls on breeding. You can't educate someone beyond their genetic potential or force them to act much different than there base nature.

And who is deciding on someone's "genetic potential"? Hmm? You seem to be basing it only on economic status. More on this in a minute.

I fail to see how a kid in south central can be considered a master of his environment simply because he lives there.

So you argue that the poor don't need the same level of education, just "tighter controls on breeding" but at the same time stating that someone that is really smart will find a way out of poverty? So people born into a life of despair should have equal chances of success as someone born into wealth? Really? You can't have things both ways.

 

[ric1312]

do some research on the creation of race, ric. you'll see what i mean.

O, please do enlighten me with your, "research."

Do you mean the creation as in the biblical sense or in the sense as the first people to start designating race classfications to different people of the world?

Am I to understand that you think, "race," is just a political/social construct created by, "the man," because he wants to subjegate them to his rule?

 

[iamlowsound]

MMMM sounds like a badly done study.

Why do most races have very specific build and facial characteristics that occur with great prevalance in that race? Obviously something makes it happen. A Japanese person born in Africa is still going to look like a Japanese person so it's not just environment.

Dude, you obviously can't read. I'll put it in simpler terms. One black dude can have an much genetic difference from another black dude as from an asian guy. Therefore, basing race on genetics is a ludicrous idea.

lowsound

 

[Gard]

ric1312, you're beginning to make me feel that we should develop "retroactive eugenics", and use YOU as the first test subject.

:scowl:

Not ALL genetic defects can be found prior to birth.

How do I know? My stepson (whom I consider my son) has cerebral palsy. He is a quadraplegic, cannot speak, and can't really even hold his head up. However, he is intelligent, bright, caring, and has a wicked sense of humor. No one knew he would have this problem, he has an older sister and two younger sisters that are completely healthy.

The end result of your "reasoning" (which stretches the definition to the breaking point, by the way) would make it so that he never had a chance to exist, much less touch the lives of countless other people, and bring happiness and joy to them.

Please take this aphorism to heart:

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

...oops, too late...

 

[ric1312]

He did. He left Germany in 1933 after Hitler was made chancellor. But I guess those other Jewish scientists weren't as smart since they were put to death. Hitler and the Nazis are thrown around far too often on message boards in an attempt to make a point, but in this case it is germane to the topic at hand. Hitler's concept of eugenics, namely that the sick, lame, mentally disabled, or psychologically impaired along with the Jews were polluting the gene pool.

Obviously, we recognize this as an evil that was perpetrated, but it demonstrates the eternal problem with the entire concept, namely, who gets to decide who can or cannot have children, who gets to live and who gets to die?

James Watson, one of the biggest figures in science in the last century favors a sort of personal eugenics. He believes that genetic testing should be done on every fetus with the option of aborting given to every family, though he himself clearly believes that pregnancies that will result in a child with Downs Syndrome or who would be homosexual should be terminated.

As far as "de-evolving", this is a misunderstanding of biology. But if you are simply stating that deleterious genes are increasing among the world's population, the short answer is "So?" I'm near sighted. In a world where the human population was actually determined by natural selection via predation, I would have likely been killed. But instead I simply wear contacts. People who are born blind, deaf, crippled or with disorders that were fatal in years past are now treated or aided in order to live out their lives.



And who is deciding on someone's "genetic potential"? Hmm? You seem to be basing it only on economic status. More on this in a minute.



So you argue that the poor don't need the same level of education, just "tighter controls on breeding" but at the same time stating that someone that is really smart will find a way out of poverty? So people born into a life of despair should have equal chances of success as someone born into wealth? Really? You can't have things both ways.

No, I'm not basing it on economic status. What I'm saying is that if someone is stupid no amount of schooling is going to make them really any smarter. Providing extra resources in an attempt to lift them beyond their own limits simply won't work.

The rich are generally rich because they possesed a trait that got them there, wether that is being smart or being savy to something and a hard worker. Allowed to breed they will make more offspring like themselvs.

Just as someone who is born into poverty and bright will pull themelves up into a higher bracket and pass their genetics and monetary gains onto their offspring.