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overdrive/fuzz quest part 2

I also recently built a EQD monarch (Jfet orange amp simulator) and it also sounds really good.
and a bunch of others that I built and tested but aren't boxed up yet (that i really like) are the Wattkins RF DRIVE, my own BASS SCREAMER (modded for bass tube screamer), modded Maxon OD820 with blend, Frantone THE SWEET, Runoffgroove 22/7, Roger Mayer STONE FUZZ, Colorsound OCTIVIDER, Durham CRAZY HORSE, TC Electronic SPARK BOOSTER, Catalinbread FORMULA no5, T-Rex MUDHONEY, Electro Harmonix HOT TUBES, Fred Briggs E11even, Lotus Pedals SNOWJOB, Sadowsky PREAMP, BJFE FOLK FUZZ 3.5%, Tone Factor CREAM PIE DELUXE, Sam Ash FUZZ-TAIN, Monolith Effects ORACLE, Roland AD-50 DOUBLE BEAT FUZZ, Modded BAZZ FUSS, Roger Mayer OCTAVIA, and Roger Mayer PAGE 1, so it looks like I still have a lot of drilling and mounting to do.
 
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Hey John, I played around with that Glass Blower circuit and have a modified version of it if you are interested in building another one.

When I was attending college in the early 80’s, I experimented with discrete differential pair circuits that bootstrapped the output back to the supply to a have greater output. I remember that those circuits used more current when compared to an equivalent circuit (without bootstrapping) running with higher voltage rails. So, I breadboarded this Glass Blower circuit a couple of summers ago when I discovered it on the web… because Valve Wizard implies on his website that it is a more efficient method than using a charge-pump circuit for headroom. I was very curious about the efficiency claims.

Valve Wizard’s statement:

“Most other 9V booster pedals run out of headroom around 6Vp-p, or even less, but the GlassBlower can deliver up to 27dB of boost and 12Vp-p of clean output signal! There are some pedals on the market that can do this (for example, the VisualSound Truetone), but they use voltage multipliers to increase the supply voltage internally. Such multipliers are, at best, 80% efficient, so your 9V battery only lasts 80% as long, which is a bit of a waste, considering you don't actually need all that headroom most of the time. The GlassBlower is different. I acheives its extra headroom with a devilishly-simple-yet-sophisticated rail boostrapping technique that forces the supply rails to follow the signal. In this way the extra voltage is there ONLY when it is needed. This is effectively what advertisers call Class G (I disapprove of the term though).”

My test results:
When I built the circuit I did not include the bypass circuitry (Q3, D2, R12, R13 and the BP switch) because I was just interested in the meat of the circuit. I also used 2N4401 and 2N4403 transistors for Q1 and Q2.

Opamps: Some opamps that were tried in this circuit wouldn’t work properly. I had two brands of 072’s (TI and STmicro) and one of them wouldn’t come close to working properly in this circuit… I don’t recall which brand wouldn’t work in this circuit. The 072 that somewhat worked, had nasty transient distortions for large signals and with steady state large signals there were small wave shape distortions on the positive half cycles. The TLC2272 seemed to work best for me in this circuit without obvious distortions and it has a lower idle current than the 072.

The circuit also had small glitches on the output signal where the bootstrap transistors were turning on/off. These glitches may just have been from my breadboard layout and a properly designed PCB may not have these issues.

Since this is implied to be more efficient than an equivalent circuit with a charge-pump, I measured the source current for various output signal levels with a 100Hz signal. The current waveform was measured across a 1ohm source resistor with an o-scope set to differential mode. Peak current waveforms were recorded.

Output Vp-p vs Source current (peak)

No Signal 2.4mA
1.0Vp-p 2.4mA
2.0Vp-p 3.2mA
3.0Vp-p 5.0mA
4.0Vp-p 7.0mA
5.0Vp-p 9.0mA
6.0Vp-p 11.0mA
7.0Vp-p 13.0mA
8.0Vp-p 15.0mA
9.0Vp-p 17.0mA
10.0Vp-p 19.0mA
11.0Vp-p 20.0mA
12.0Vp-p 21.0mA

Then I disabled the bootstrap circuit, installed a charge-pump for a negative supply and made the same current measurements. The negative voltage rail was connected to the grounded side of R4 on the bias divider and to the negative power pin of the opamp… everything else remained the same. A MAX1044 charge-pump was used with its osc freq boost enabled, which lowers the pumps conversion efficiency a bit. The supply voltage had to be lowered to 8Vdc because of the TLC2272 limitation of +/-8V.

Output Vp-p vs Source current (peak)

No Signal 4.0mA
1.0Vp-p 4.0mA
2.0Vp-p 4.0mA
3.0Vp-p 4.0mA
4.0Vp-p 4.0mA
5.0Vp-p 4.0mA
6.0Vp-p 4.0mA
7.0Vp-p 4.0mA
8.0Vp-p 4.0mA
9.0Vp-p 4.0mA
10.0Vp-p 4.0mA
11.0Vp-p 4.0mA
12.0Vp-p 4.0mA


The current measurements would be greater for both circuits if the LED indicator was installed. But since the LED is only powered from the positive power rail, both circuits would increase by the same amount and the charge-pump conversion efficiency would not change.

So, the only time the Glass Blower circuit will be efficient is when the signal output is below the Vbe of the bootstrap driver transistors or approx 1.2Vp-p… otherwise it is dumping a lot of battery current across the power rails every time Q1 and Q2 are conducting. Some will argue that your signal will not be driven over the 1.2Vp-p zone very often, so you will still have a fairly efficient boost amplifier. I believe that the whole premise of this boost pedal is to have large amplitude signals drive the preamp tubes into submission for beautiful harmonic distortion. So I think it is safe to assume that you will most definitely be running a lot of your signal greater than the 1.2Vp-p efficient zone. I’m pretty sure all of my solid-body bass guitars output signals greater than 1.2Vp-p.

The statement that Valve Wizard made about charge pumps being only 80% efficient and wasting battery current is very misleading. Granted that there is always some conversion loss with charge pump circuits, but you need to compare charge pump efficiency against the efficiency of his bootstrapped circuit… apples to apples. If you look at the two source current measurements for the 12Vp-p output signal, one can make the argument that the bootstrapped circuit has a 500% lower efficiency than the equivalent circuit with the charge-pump. And at a reasonable 4.5Vp-p output signal, the bootstrapped circuit has half the efficiency of the equivalent charge-pump circuit. Apples to apples.

The original Glass Blower:

GlassBlowerSchematicII.jpg


Just for kicks, I made a different version of this circuit that uses the second opamp as a bootstrap driver for Q1 and Q2. I wasn’t trying to improve battery efficiency, or to make a design for production, but I wanted to eliminate the signal glitches when the bootstrap transistors turned on and off. It was just a bench exercise to improve upon what I had in front of me. I named the file Glass Crusher for my own amusement. The benefits of this modified circuit are that the Vbe barriers of the bootstrap driver transistors are essentially eliminated by opamp gain and feedback control to allow for an electrically quieter bootstrap drive and the audio signal only passes thru one opamp. It also buffers the bootstrap drivers from the audio signal. The elimination of the on/off switching of the bootstrap transistors at Vbe stopped the signal glitches from transistor switching current spikes (although a well laid out PCB of the original circuit may not have these signal glitches at all). All of the inefficient power aspects of the original circuit remain in this circuit as well… actually this modified circuit is a bit less efficient than the original with output signal levels less than the transistors Vbe drops of 1.2Vp-p. Because the bootstrap transistors in this modified version are continually active, the measured source current below 1.2Vp-p increased to approx 4.5mA with a 1Vp-p 100Hz signal… approx 2mA more than the original circuit. If you desire to have the same Vbe efficiency zone as the original, then you can move the feedback connection from the second opamp’s negative input from the Q1 and Q2 driver output, directly to the opamp output (pin 7). But with all of the current wasted for larger signals, I prefer the quieter drive. There are also some component value changes from the original...

A modified version:

fea-glass-crusher-jpg.409815


This is a fun and novel circuit, but IMO, a properly designed gain boost circuit with a proper power supply for headroom is a much better method for a large signal boost. Think about how all opamp manufacturers specify clean and stable DC supplies for use with their opamps. They don’t recommend that you put AC signals on the supply pins.

-Frank
 

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that's really cool Frank, and thanks for the info!
I haven't noticed any glitches or strange tonal artifacts with my glass blower build and it sounds great, but I think i'll draw up a vero for your glass crusher so I can A/B compare the two side by side.
BTW, i'm running a TI TL072CP in my glass blower and it sounds perfect.
 
Those little glitches on the sine wave was contamination from the bootstrap transistors turning on/off. With breadboard circuits it is easy for me to have noise propagate where it normally wouldn’t be. I never plugged this circuit into an amplifier, so those tiny blips may not have been heard anyway.

The wave distortion that I saw on the scope was with a 12Vp-p signal, with the 072 opamp. The observable distortion was nonexistent with signals lower than 6Vp-p. The distortion wasn’t signal clipping, more like a slight dent on the leading side of the positive wave, about 2/3 up to the peak. The negative half cycles were clean.

The transient distortion that I observed with the 072 was only on the first 2 or 3 cycles of the 100Hz burst at 12Vp-p. It was that common clipping that you see with some amplifier circuits until the circuit stabilizes. But that distortion also cleared up with smaller amplitude signals.

Realistically, those “dent” and transient distortions that I saw on the scope may not be audible with rich harmonic bass/guitar signals, and if you are running 12Vp-p signals into the front end of an amp, I really think there will be other distortions that will dominate. But if you have the TLC opamp, give it a try because it didn’t have any of those distortions that I saw with the 072. The 2272 is absolutely rock solid with transients in this circuit. Maybe your 072 works as well as my 2272 in this circuit.

The reason that I was looking at such hot signals is because he claims “12Vp-p clean output signal!”. I needed to see how clean.:)

-Frank
 
I don't currently have any 2272's but I do have some 2262's and I've always liked them in pedals, so i'll try one in the GB.
I haven't found a clean boost yet that doesn't start to clip when approaching it's max gain, but then again, at that point the front end of the amp will probably clip before the booster does.
i haven't put mine on a scope yet, but I will tomorrow.
 
Those little glitches on the sine wave was contamination from the bootstrap transistors turning on/off. With breadboard circuits it is easy for me to have noise propagate where it normally wouldn’t be. I never plugged this circuit into an amplifier, so those tiny blips may not have been heard anyway.

The wave distortion that I saw on the scope was with a 12Vp-p signal, with the 072 opamp. The observable distortion was nonexistent with signals lower than 6Vp-p. The distortion wasn’t signal clipping, more like a slight dent on the leading side of the positive wave, about 2/3 up to the peak. The negative half cycles were clean.

The transient distortion that I observed with the 072 was only on the first 2 or 3 cycles of the 100Hz burst at 12Vp-p. It was that common clipping that you see with some amplifier circuits until the circuit stabilizes. But that distortion also cleared up with smaller amplitude signals.

Realistically, those “dent” and transient distortions that I saw on the scope may not be audible with rich harmonic bass/guitar signals, and if you are running 12Vp-p signals into the front end of an amp, I really think there will be other distortions that will dominate. But if you have the TLC opamp, give it a try because it didn’t have any of those distortions that I saw with the 072. The 2272 is absolutely rock solid with transients in this circuit. Maybe your 072 works as well as my 2272 in this circuit.

The reason that I was looking at such hot signals is because he claims “12Vp-p clean output signal!”. I needed to see how clean.:)

-Frank

I just noticed that I do have some TLC272's. is that the one that you mean?
 
I just noticed that I do have some TLC272's. is that the one that you mean?

The TLC2272 that I used (one of Valve Wizard’s suggestions) is an upgraded (enhanced) version of the TLC272… so give it a try. They are both 100% CMOS opamps, but internally they are quite different. Because this circuit is using the opamps in a way they were never designed to operate, it is a "try it and see" experiment. Because the 2272 has a rail-to-rail output I was able to get 15Vp-p of un-clipped signal from my modified version, although the the current draw was excessive at >20mA.

Keep in mind that I never plugged this circuit into an amp... I was only analyzing the signals and currents on the bench. So I will have no subjective listening experiences.

I just started using a newer CMOS opamp (Released in 2011) for the input stage on one of my pedals. I am very impressed with it so far. This circuit I did put thru an amplifier several times.:D

-Frank
 
yeah, I've heard the the 62 and the 72 sound the same (both are rail to rail) but the 62 is much less power hungry.
I did put my Glass Blower on a scope last night with the TL072 and was surprised how perfectly clean it was with a 100hz, 150mv p-p input boosted to 3.2V p-p.

the mosfet booster (bajo mos) distorted much earlier, with the same 100Hz input, started distorting the lower sine wave (rounding off) right after 1.92V p-p.
 
yeah, I've heard the the 62 and the 72 sound the same (both are rail to rail) but the 62 is much less power hungry.
I did put my Glass Blower on a scope last night with the TL072 and was surprised how perfectly clean it was with a 100hz, 150mv p-p input boosted to 3.2V p-p.

the mosfet booster (bajo mos) distorted much earlier, with the same 100Hz input, started distorting the lower sine wave (rounding off) right after 1.92V p-p.

I am surprised that that mosfet booster distorted with such a low output... it's not as much of a clean boost as I have read. But I'm really interested to see your observations of your Glass Blower with the 072 at 12Vp-p output. Because that is the goal of this circuit.

I just did a google search on “bootstrapping op amp circuit” to see what other circuits are out there and found several that may be an interesting experiment when I have the time. At least they will make a good bedtime read for me.

Here is one that I may have a use for. This is a circuit that uses larger supply voltages than the opamp can handle of +/-36V to get a 72Vp-p output. It is titled “Pimping an opamp for large voltage swings”, based on an article from EDN published in May 1999. It’s not boosting the output greater than the supply, but allowing the opamp to operate in a higher voltage circuit than its rating allows. It could be useful if you want to use those newer 5V opamps within a 9V or 18V circuit. I consider this is a true class G/H amplifier.

EDN_BootStrapDiag_small.png

Link Removed


-Frank
 
actually, by mistake, I was running my probe at the dividedX10 setting!
here's what my scope now shows for the two boosters at 1:1:
first, here's how they both look on the scope when bypassed:

Scope-Boosterinput.jpg


here's the mosfet boost at 22.2V P-P (but not at max gain since it's really distorted at full tilt). you can see the bottom of the sine wave starting to round off:

Scopemosfetboostx22.2VGain.jpg


and here's the the glass blower at max gain (31.4V with no distortion):

ScopeGlassBlowermaxGain.jpg
 

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