I do think it’s fair to say the quality of electronics come into play in this situation.
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P basses were meant to be 4 string
- Thread starter Al Krow
- Start date
Definitely can. My Olinto P5 is all passive, so I suppose the pickup wind/thick neck/brazilian RW board all play in.
I really dig in with my right hand, and like my action up a bit when playing flatwounds. That has a lot to do with it. Also worth mentioning, I'm not going for that grand-piano tone/clarity that you get from a Modulus/Dingwall, and the B-string sound I get, while clear and pitch-focused, is more integrated with the other strings. Guess I need to post up more clips!!
Guys - a lot of great comments on this thread, thanks! Don't get me wrong - I'm lucky to have some great basses in my herd and my Yammy BB1025 PJ has been my stand-out gigging bass during 2019.
Couple of posts dealing with the 'science' that have certainly deepened my understanding, which I wanted to give a shout-out to:
@Mushroo
Bridge pickups are great for low B strings because they emphasize the "overtone" frequencies over the fundamental frequency, and strong overtones are one of the factors that help create a "tight B string tone."
A practical tip how to achieve somewhat similar tone on a P bass is to use a high pass filter. If you set the HPF around, say, 60hz then it will clean up the fundamental frequencies and emphasize the overtones when you play on the B string of your 5-string P bass. This will give you more of a "bridge pickup sound" on a P bass that doesn't actually have a bridge pickup.
@Altitude
The physics here are that the string vibration is much more pronounced above the area where a P pickup is than it is at any point closer to the neck. The subjective I’ve read is that pickups have a harder time, all else constant, “reading” the string when it’s moving a lot than when it’s moving a little. And lower strings move more than higher ones in general.
If that is true, it explains why P basses with only the one split pickup tend to sound a bit muddy down low. Adding a bridge pickup helps, because that pickup gets to read the string at a point where the amplitude of the vibration is less. Also BTW, notice that as extended range basses became more popular in the 80s and 90s we saw some new pickup configurations emerge that moved the pickups further back in general. Presumably to address this issue.
But I'm getting the sense from your feedback that choice of P pups and to a lesser extent strings can go some way to addressing the issue.
Couple of posts dealing with the 'science' that have certainly deepened my understanding, which I wanted to give a shout-out to:
@Mushroo
Bridge pickups are great for low B strings because they emphasize the "overtone" frequencies over the fundamental frequency, and strong overtones are one of the factors that help create a "tight B string tone."
A practical tip how to achieve somewhat similar tone on a P bass is to use a high pass filter. If you set the HPF around, say, 60hz then it will clean up the fundamental frequencies and emphasize the overtones when you play on the B string of your 5-string P bass. This will give you more of a "bridge pickup sound" on a P bass that doesn't actually have a bridge pickup.
@Altitude
The physics here are that the string vibration is much more pronounced above the area where a P pickup is than it is at any point closer to the neck. The subjective I’ve read is that pickups have a harder time, all else constant, “reading” the string when it’s moving a lot than when it’s moving a little. And lower strings move more than higher ones in general.
If that is true, it explains why P basses with only the one split pickup tend to sound a bit muddy down low. Adding a bridge pickup helps, because that pickup gets to read the string at a point where the amplitude of the vibration is less. Also BTW, notice that as extended range basses became more popular in the 80s and 90s we saw some new pickup configurations emerge that moved the pickups further back in general. Presumably to address this issue.
But I'm getting the sense from your feedback that choice of P pups and to a lesser extent strings can go some way to addressing the issue.
The OP was discussing 5 strings. Yes, your BEAD will be fine on a 4, but the problem is the design of the P pickup set. I don't recall the details, but I read recently that because the two halfs of the 5 stingf P Pickup are not the same, the Lowest string doesn't perform well.
Question for you. Did you have to replace or recut your nut to go to BEAD? I'm thinking of doing that to one of my Ps.
I'm officially over my skis now, technically. I'd imagine a pickup could be designed to overcome some of those limitations, yes.
I don't use any pedals. I should try sometime. I am too old school!
my bass – 4-string, squire P bass – is set up in A standard... def needs heavy strings & a pretty serious a set-up, but it's a cool tuning.
the lows are massive. even the upper register stuff has a lot of bottom-thump.
The open / low A can be a bit much; it's not for everything, but rolling up some treble or mids can help control excess woolliness, that said, the low/open A is what it is, it's just really deep, and depending on the song, that can be a useful effect.
... probably the biggest thing for me is a quality amp and cab, more than any pickups on the guitar itself. but i also am relatively new to being a gigging bassist, so i would defer to veterans & electrical engineers here.
/shrugs
the lows are massive. even the upper register stuff has a lot of bottom-thump.
The open / low A can be a bit much; it's not for everything, but rolling up some treble or mids can help control excess woolliness, that said, the low/open A is what it is, it's just really deep, and depending on the song, that can be a useful effect.
... probably the biggest thing for me is a quality amp and cab, more than any pickups on the guitar itself. but i also am relatively new to being a gigging bassist, so i would defer to veterans & electrical engineers here.
/shrugs
My Sadowsky 5-24 PJ is one of the most versatile bass I've ever played. There is not a perceptable volume difference when moving from one pickup to another. In the middle position where I spend most of my time it sounds a mile wide and still cuts through a mix like no other. I think this has a lot to do with your pickup-to-pickup balance. I would get the J into proper position then adjust the P pickup to match. The way mine was on the showroom floor the day we met was perfect and I haven't changed it.
Cue ‘experts’ who invalidate our P5/PJ5 experience with their empirical evidence explaining how this is not possible.
Meanwhile back at the ranch, I can walk down Low Eb to low B, pitch as clear as a bell, but ooey gooey with artery-clogging thickness.
5-String Chubby Jackson Model S-5 made between 1940 and 1969.
Then there's this:
Viola da gamba
Bass by Giovanni Paolo Maggini
(Brescia, c. 1600)
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
- Disclosures
- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
View attachment 3641927
5-String Chubby Jackson Model S-5 made between 1940 and 1969.
View attachment 3641928
Then there's this:
View attachment 3641929
Viola da gamba
Bass by Giovanni Paolo Maggini
(Brescia, c. 1600)
those are kinda less common than the 4
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
- Disclosures
- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
View attachment 3641927
5-String Chubby Jackson Model S-5 made between 1940 and 1969.
View attachment 3641928
Then there's this:
View attachment 3641929
Viola da gamba
Bass by Giovanni Paolo Maggini
(Brescia, c. 1600)
they also had this model
and they had this model
I never thought I would hear someone call a P a one trick pony bass.
Yep. That one trick is to fit in to many different genres as you can name and make them all sound great. From soul to rock, funk to jazz and top 40 hits to punk. Name any other style and there's a guy playing a P bass and sounding good.
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
- Disclosures
- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
View attachment 3641927
5-String Chubby Jackson Model S-5 made between 1940 and 1969.
View attachment 3641928
Then there's this:
View attachment 3641929
Viola da gamba
Bass by Giovanni Paolo Maggini
(Brescia, c. 1600)
That 6 string model looks like more of a cello than a bass
they also make 5 string violins
I agree. I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. I should have clarified that better. I was referring more to the tone of the standard P.... not it's applications across genres. Of course P's are used in rock, country, blues, punk, metal, etc... and it's tone fits in well with all of them.
The increased string vibration near the neck actually makes the signal more powerful. That’s why guitars can be generally fine with high output bridge pickups and normal output neck pickups. As I understand, it’s mostly about harmonics. Getting nearer the bridge, accents upper harmonics. Same thing happens with picking location. I generally pick a bit closer to the bridge when on the B string. This adds some clarity, no matter the pickup selection.
