P basses were meant to be 4 string

[petrus61]

Meh...gotta try isolated switching for a PJ. Has nothing to do with number of strings and everything to do with the inherent loading+mid-scoop one is bound to have (or could make great use of) with this config.

 

[Altitude]

I agree that's a pretty hack explanation - I have a degree in Acoustical Physics, so I'll help out a bit here. The P pickup location is far from where the string's maximum vibration is - the 12th fret is where that is (for the open string). Any point closer to the neck has more output than the P pickup location.

Pickups don't have a hard time reading vibration where there's a lot of it. Close spacing and strong string amplitudes will produce more harmonics when there's a lot of vibration near the pickup, but that's usually a good thing - adding character to the sound.

If a P sounds muddy, it's not pickup location (it's not even the bass) - a J (along with a lot of other 2 pickup basses) has pretty much the same location on the E and A strings. What's likely "muddy" is that your cabinets don't reproduce the fundamental of the low E well - that can sound muddy. A P through a great PA - not at all muddy.

Thanks for the “help” there. On rereading my post, I actually meant to say "closer to the bridge" above, not "neck". I think with that correction you'd agree.

I feel confident I've read opinions out of the industry that something about the pickup placement on a P bass was suboptimal for 5-string basses. I'll try to find it.

Empirically, we see very few single pickup 5-strings with the one pickup that far forward, regardless of the pickup type. 50 million Elvis fans can't be totally wrong.

 

[micguy]

Empirically, we see very few single pickup 5-strings with the one pickup that far forward, regardless of the pickup type.

I have two 5 string instruments. Both have their neck pickups... right where the E/A half of a P pickup is. On one of those basses, that’s the only pickup. If you want the fundamental of your B string to have some beef, it’s a good location. Yes, that location will challenge the woofers in a bass guitar cabinet, but I play ampless through big PA’s. In those scenarios, that location provides good, solid low end.

 

[Altitude]

I have two 5 string instruments. Both have their neck pickups... right where the E/A half of a P pickup is. On one of those basses, that’s the only pickup. If you want the fundamental of your B string to have some beef, it’s a good location. Yes, that location will challenge the woofers in a bass guitar cabinet, but I play ampless through big PA’s. In those scenarios, that location provides good, solid low end.

With a degree in acoustical physics, I’m guessing you know what n=1 means.

 

[Al Krow]

I agree that's a pretty hack explanation - I have a degree in Acoustical Physics, so I'll help out a bit here. The P pickup location is far from where the string's maximum vibration is - the 12th fret is where that is (for the open string). Any point closer to the neck has more output than the P pickup location.

Pickups don't have a hard time reading vibration where there's a lot of it. Close spacing and strong string amplitudes will produce more harmonics when there's a lot of vibration near the pickup, but that's usually a good thing - adding character to the sound.

If a P sounds muddy, it's not pickup location (it's not even the bass) - a J (along with a lot of other 2 pickup basses) has pretty much the same location on the E and A strings. What's likely "muddy" is that your cabinets don't reproduce the fundamental of the low E well - that can sound muddy. A P through a great PA - not at all muddy.

Thanks for your helpful post. However, the issue I'm observing is not muddiness or lack of my rig beingaable to cope. When I switch to the J bridge pup I get a fulsome meaty low C and D on the B string. It's much more that on the P setting my bass is simply not punching through with these very low notes. In my case I have the very simple solution of switching to the bridge J pup.

There may or may not be a wider point going on here, and hence thinking it would be interesting to get a wider perspective from my fellow TBers. Right I'd better go check out Ed Friedland's blog on this...

 

[micguy]

With a degree in acoustical physics, I’m guessing you know what n=1 means.

Yes, I do, but I also know what creates “mud”, and it isn’t what most people on here think.

I’ve done FOH for a few hundred shows, and worked with a fair number of guys with 5 strings, so n is greater than 1.

 

[micguy]

With a degree in acoustical physics, I’m guessing you know what n=1 means.

If you want some more numbers of 5 string basses with their neck pickups in the same location as a 4 string P or J, I'll refer you to Fender, Squier, Yamaha, Ibanez, Sadoswky, Xotic, G&L, Sire, Music Man, Schecter, ESP, Spector, Fodera, Jackson, NS design, etc. A quick perusal of the Sweetater web site shows that basses with their neck pickups in that position are the norm. Yes, a few boutique builders put their neck pickups closer to the bridge, but that's the exception.

 

[Al Krow]

Yes, I do, but I also know what creates “mud”, and it isn’t what most people on here think.

I’ve done FOH for a few hundred shows, and worked with a fair number of guys with 5 strings, so n is greater than 1.

Come on then spill the beans. What does cause mud then?

 

[micguy]

Come on then spill the beans. What does cause mud then?

When you drive a woofer too hard, you get lots of distortion (harmonics) 2nd, 3rd, etc. When you get up to the 5th and 7th harmonics, it takes very little of those to make the result non-musical. Also note that the 5th and 7th harmonics of low notes on a bass are in the 200 to 300 Hz range - any good FOH person will know that cutting in that spectrum helps reduce mud. Mud is not from too much fundamental energy - it’s from speakers that can’t reproduce that energy cleanly. Turn off your amp, run through a decent PA, and you’ll find you can set your low pass filter below 30Hz, and not get mud.

 

[Pietzsa]

Ed’s P5 video

 

[Altitude]

If you want some more numbers of 5 string basses with their neck pickups in the same location as a 4 string P or J, I'll refer you to Fender, Squier, Yamaha, Ibanez, Sadoswky, Xotic, G&L, Sire, Music Man, Schecter, ESP, Spector, Fodera, Jackson, NS design, etc. A quick perusal of the Sweetater web site shows that basses with their neck pickups in that position are the norm. Yes, a few boutique builders put their neck pickups closer to the bridge, but that's the exception.

Agreed. Almost all of those models include a separate bridge pickup as well, which enables players to blend in the more focused tone from that pickup to achieve a tighter low end. I’ve been consistent in my posts in this thread about single pickup P bases having the issue.

 

[Watchootognbout]

23410369[/URL], member: 106848"]I have no complaints on low B-string notes with any of my PJ's, including with flats, though none are Fenders. While Mr. Fender certainly deserves acclaim and credit for his pioneering work to bring electric bass to the masses, I do not view him as some mystical, Nostradamus-like entity that was developing an electric bass while encapsulated in a fog of future-revealing mist as he tried to cosmically project his intent to future musicians about how he would have wanted us to do things. He was in the right place at the right time and was able to bring a successful new product to market at that time. Lots of technology has changed since then and some manufacturers have done better than others keeping current.

 

[Flamingo21]

Turn off your amp, run through a decent PA, and you’ll find you can set your low pass filter below 30Hz, and not get mud.

I think you meant high pass filter.

 

[MrLenny1]

There's nothing like a five to play tunes like Uptown Funk
and many New Country tunes. A P 4 and a J5 is good to have.

 

[micguy]

I think you meant high pass filter.

Well...yeah.

 

[ElectricBass72]

Here's my new and first ever... Fender Precision bass = Fender Player Precision Limited Edition Ocean Turquoise (Mexican). (I've owned 3 Fender Jazz basses in the past.... Squire, Mexican and Mexican fretless, all of which I ended up selling on eBay.) The action was high on the P out of the box, so I lowered it and also lowered the split pickups. Now it plays like butter. Sounds good picked or fingered. I can understand why people like these basses so much. The new P sounds great through my generic Ampeg 8" practice amp... and it sounds incredible through the Fender Rumble 2x10.