And not a passive V/V/T in the lot, notice!pj has been my favorite since 83 when i got the brazilian pj from the boys in brooklyn..
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P J P/J Oh my!
- Thread starter dtotheatothevto
- Start date
I had a Nordstrand PJ that was VVT. It was fine - but in the end I prefer active basses so I sold it.
It can work, the builder just has to know what they're doing.
It can work, the builder just has to know what they're doing.
I have a v/b/t set-up with my Nordstrand VP4 / Big Split combo and am having a blast with it.
This is the first passive system I have owned and sure don't have any regrets. Sounds great and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
This is the first passive system I have owned and sure don't have any regrets. Sounds great and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
My G&L SB-2 (a passive P/J) sounds like a P with the P pickup soloed (and here's the poll to prove it: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/p-vs-p-like-can-you-tell-difference-838140/). And it also sounds awesome with some of the J pickup dialed in.
I would, however, never expect to play it with just the J pickup soloed.
Physics is nice. I'm a big fan of Physics. But, the Final Answer is whatever my ears say. and my ears say that a passive P/J CAN, in fact, sound VERY good. The Yamaha BB415 (passive P/J) I used to have also sounded REALLY good. Total P sound with the P pickup soloed. Total J bridge sound with that soloed.
I would, however, never expect to play it with just the J pickup soloed.
Physics is nice. I'm a big fan of Physics. But, the Final Answer is whatever my ears say. and my ears say that a passive P/J CAN, in fact, sound VERY good. The Yamaha BB415 (passive P/J) I used to have also sounded REALLY good. Total P sound with the P pickup soloed. Total J bridge sound with that soloed.
I somehow missed your poll. Thanks for providing the link and a belated thanks for taking the time to do it! That's great.
Another option would be, pick up one cv/vm P and one cv/vm J or one MIA P or J and cheaper one of the other. That way you have both the "true" P or J sound depending on what you want at the time. Or just get the PJ. I know not much help, lol!! I am to indecisive
Please provide your phone number so my wife can call & bitch you out when I do this...if it does I blame you...
Please provide your phone number so my wife can call & bitch you out when I do this...if it does I blame you...
Most of us have wives of our own with whom to contend. Nice try though.
The real question here is, if the pope takes a crap in the woods and nobody hears it, does he have VVT syndrome?
If 99 percent of all passive P/J users get a perfect P sound with the P pick-up soloed, and can roll in as much J sound into the perfect p sound as they desire, does it matter if the bass has a severe physics affliction that only becomes evident if you try to adjust the pick-ups in ways that players wouldn't even consider?
Myth: A p/j doesn't sound like a p. If the P pick-ups are in the same exact place as they are in any normal fender P and they are p pick-ups and they are soloed, it sounds exactly like a p. Period. If I put up sound clips of 4 fender P's and a PJ soloed on the P pick-up, you would not be able to tell me which one was the P/J unless you used eeny meeny miny moe and got lucky. It's been said that "many" P/J don't have the P pick-ups in the same position on a P/J. Where are these basses and why would they do that? I don't know, but I'd never buy one.
The problem, if you can even call it a problem at all, with P/Js is that P pick-ups are hotter than J pick-ups, so you can't always get as much J sound as you'd like into the pick-up mix, because the P pick-up overpowers the J pick-up.
So introduce the Fender Hot Rod P, that loathsome beast that has the P pick-ups in the exact some spot as any normal P, and has an overwound J pick-up (in the 70s J position for those who care) in them to balance better with P pick-up output. So now you can get more J growl if you want it and the desired effect of getting a P sound with the growl and bite characteristics of a J. And virtually universally acclaimed as the best factory implementation of a passive P/J ever. Players won't give them up, and they've almost doubled in price on the used market in the last year.
Does the dreaded VVT syndrome show up when you turn the J up to 10 and then try to mix in a little bit of P? I don't know, because a J soloed sounds like crap. I never met anyone who didn't put the P full on and blend their desired bite into the tone. If there is some kind of physics issue with doing half a j and half a p, who would notice? Because it's not what players do with P/Js.
So if the pope takes a crap in the woods and nobody hears it, does he have VVT syndrome? If one particular model of bass has the worst case of VVT syndrome ever, and it's widely considered to be the best ever implementation of a passive p/j, is it sort of like having the rocking pneumonia and the boogie woogie flu?
If 99 percent of all passive P/J users get a perfect P sound with the P pick-up soloed, and can roll in as much J sound into the perfect p sound as they desire, does it matter if the bass has a severe physics affliction that only becomes evident if you try to adjust the pick-ups in ways that players wouldn't even consider?
Myth: A p/j doesn't sound like a p. If the P pick-ups are in the same exact place as they are in any normal fender P and they are p pick-ups and they are soloed, it sounds exactly like a p. Period. If I put up sound clips of 4 fender P's and a PJ soloed on the P pick-up, you would not be able to tell me which one was the P/J unless you used eeny meeny miny moe and got lucky. It's been said that "many" P/J don't have the P pick-ups in the same position on a P/J. Where are these basses and why would they do that? I don't know, but I'd never buy one.
The problem, if you can even call it a problem at all, with P/Js is that P pick-ups are hotter than J pick-ups, so you can't always get as much J sound as you'd like into the pick-up mix, because the P pick-up overpowers the J pick-up.
So introduce the Fender Hot Rod P, that loathsome beast that has the P pick-ups in the exact some spot as any normal P, and has an overwound J pick-up (in the 70s J position for those who care) in them to balance better with P pick-up output. So now you can get more J growl if you want it and the desired effect of getting a P sound with the growl and bite characteristics of a J. And virtually universally acclaimed as the best factory implementation of a passive P/J ever. Players won't give them up, and they've almost doubled in price on the used market in the last year.
Does the dreaded VVT syndrome show up when you turn the J up to 10 and then try to mix in a little bit of P? I don't know, because a J soloed sounds like crap. I never met anyone who didn't put the P full on and blend their desired bite into the tone. If there is some kind of physics issue with doing half a j and half a p, who would notice? Because it's not what players do with P/Js.
So if the pope takes a crap in the woods and nobody hears it, does he have VVT syndrome? If one particular model of bass has the worst case of VVT syndrome ever, and it's widely considered to be the best ever implementation of a passive p/j, is it sort of like having the rocking pneumonia and the boogie woogie flu?
Three of my main basses are a J a P and a PJ aerodyne... I will agree that it is not a " best of both worlds " scenario but also agree that with the P pup soloed it sounds like a P. I play my aerodyne J with the neck pup all the way up and my bridge at about 50%... I play my Js that way too and I've never experienced any kind of "blending " problem (maybe we are talking about different things?) on the aero the P sounds like a nice fat P and dialing up the J gives that fatness a little bite. I like it alot. Depends on the music you are playing and the sound you are looking for... When I think PJ I think Duff...
fwiw I run my J pup alone (active basses) from time to time, and ran the J pup alone on my VVT setup Nordstrand. Sounds like a bridge J pup. Just like on a JJ bass. Go figure...
+1 to what Bongo said. I have never achieved good tone mixing a P-J system (note, I always play passive) I do have a P-J fretless Jaguar, but I modded it to switch to either pure P or pure J. Either will provide different, but excellent tones for fretless.
For fretted, I prefer the single J-neck pickup that many feel sounds too thin. I find it to be warm, yet highly articulate. I've never been able to get much use out of the J bridge on a fretted, nor have I ever really found a tone I like by mixing pickups, but I will say that two Js mix much better than a P-J if you are into such things.
IME, IMO and YMMV etc...
For fretted, I prefer the single J-neck pickup that many feel sounds too thin. I find it to be warm, yet highly articulate. I've never been able to get much use out of the J bridge on a fretted, nor have I ever really found a tone I like by mixing pickups, but I will say that two Js mix much better than a P-J if you are into such things.
IME, IMO and YMMV etc...
The timing of this thread couldn't be better for me. I'm new to the P/J having had both J an P's. I found a great deal on a 2001 HRPB and couldn't pass it up. Loved the sound with rounds, came home all excited, put La Bella flats on it, played the crap out of it and kept saying wow. THEN I decided to check what the boys and girls on on TB had to say. I was puzzled by the way most every thread I read came to a gloomy conclusion. I kept thinking, am I mad. Why do I like this thing! Thanks for bringing me back!
Your ears > Talkbass.
If it were the other way round, we'd all be playing P basses with flats, Nordys, a tort guard and arguing about which metal is the best to play with it.
Congrats man. The hot rods are awesome. I heard that some hot rods had a bad batch of something or other in them, one of the electronic components was defective, I forget what it was now. But mine didn't have the problem, so everything was good. You are not mad, do a google search for the bass and there are plenty of owners who say it's one of the best basses Fender ever made. Did you get stuck with one of those hideous transparent orange ones?
Until I can arm wrestle my wife into letting me spend my funeral payment for a CS Reggie Hamilton, the only P/J I have is the Squier VM-Jaguar.
I can totally say that this bass has some of the hottest p'ups I've ever played in a passive mode. So ---- maybe the VM-Jag is an oddball, but mixing or playing solo either pickup is just full of nice sound, tone, power and equality when they are mixed.
I find absolutely NO fall off when I start dialing back-n-forth on the volume for either or both p'up. Full on, both p'ups articulate well - great even. They can both be heard in the total sound and it isn't a P nor a J in that configuration but something better and different.
Using one of the other only, the P is almost the same as my other Ps - so much so that they are almost indistinguishable from one another.
The J p'up alone is powerful, but tonally thinner that I feel and hear in comparison of my other J-Basses, active or passive - but that's not bad since I use the J to underwrite the P and make it cut and pierce the mix better than either a full-J or single, split-P alone.
So ---- it's a different animal, but not badly-so. Love it for what it is - another rifle in the front line.
I'm also not so worried, nor am I buying into the 'Classic X-Position' for the pickups, as I know that once a fretted note is held, the placement of the p'ups goes into the toilet anyway.
So I don't buy into the placement of the p'ups as a Bass-Gospel rule unless somehow they get put on the back of the body.
BTW, Bongo --- no soup for you! I appreciate your knowledge, but you are coming off as angry. Relax - it's only opinions.
I can totally say that this bass has some of the hottest p'ups I've ever played in a passive mode. So ---- maybe the VM-Jag is an oddball, but mixing or playing solo either pickup is just full of nice sound, tone, power and equality when they are mixed.
I find absolutely NO fall off when I start dialing back-n-forth on the volume for either or both p'up. Full on, both p'ups articulate well - great even. They can both be heard in the total sound and it isn't a P nor a J in that configuration but something better and different.
Using one of the other only, the P is almost the same as my other Ps - so much so that they are almost indistinguishable from one another.
The J p'up alone is powerful, but tonally thinner that I feel and hear in comparison of my other J-Basses, active or passive - but that's not bad since I use the J to underwrite the P and make it cut and pierce the mix better than either a full-J or single, split-P alone.
So ---- it's a different animal, but not badly-so. Love it for what it is - another rifle in the front line.
I'm also not so worried, nor am I buying into the 'Classic X-Position' for the pickups, as I know that once a fretted note is held, the placement of the p'ups goes into the toilet anyway.
So I don't buy into the placement of the p'ups as a Bass-Gospel rule unless somehow they get put on the back of the body.
BTW, Bongo --- no soup for you! I appreciate your knowledge, but you are coming off as angry. Relax - it's only opinions.
I just bought a Fender Power Jazz Bass Special. Though not my first PJ (I had an sb2) it will be my first active. Should be here Friday. I am pumped.
This Fender Hot Rod P used to be Translucent Orange, but it came down with a bad case of VVT. Now it has sick tone.
No, he's not mad, he's right and everyone else is wrong. He's taken every opportunity since at least as far back as 2009 to bash passive p/j configurations and tell anyone with a hot rod their bass sucks and it's got VVT syndrome. Google bongolation and hot rod to see how obsessive this is.
In this thread, he scoffs at the idea that hot rods will be collectible some day, because he's right.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/fender-hot-rod-bass-collectors-640842/#post8874294
Well now they are collectible and highly sought after and are bringing a pretty penny. "Collectors? Funny!" indeed.
Guess the crystal ball was a little cloudy there.
OK, you hate hot rod P's and they have a dreaded disease that nobody else notices, we get it. We get it. We get it. We get it.
