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P J P/J Oh my!

#101
Bongolation, if you are obsessed with understanding things, please try to understand this point of view:

Again, I will say, if you have the volume control up 100 percent, and if you turn the J off, you have a perfect P sound. And with all the P/Js I've played in the last few years, you can turn up the J pick-ups little by little, and bring as much of the j pick-up sound as you want to into your sound, smoothly, from from 0 to 10, with no increase or decrease in volume. I'm not deaf.

So I say, if used this way, there is no syndrome mucking anything up and that's why tens of thousands of p/j players use p/j's.

And basically, when someone asks innocent questions like "should I buy a P/J, what do you guys think", there no reason to muck up the conversation with what basically is "no, they all suck, they all sound like crap because they have a syndrome, and I hate them, and I'm right, because it's physics, you are all deaf and in denial." That's not helpful to the guy asking for advice. There is not a damn thing wrong with wiring up VVT, they don't sound like crap, and that's why people have been doing this since the 60s. If a bunch of geeks want to have a thread about engineering principles and inductance and resistance and all that, it's all well and good, and I would probably read it with great interest. But I just don't see where when someone asks about a p/j, that a "problem" that nobody notices or hears has to pollute the advice that p/j users are trying to impart to the guy asking the question.

I'm just saying. Interesting conversation and topic, I appreciate your lust for knowledge and your generosity in sharing your knowledge with others, but the P/J bashing doesn't have to appear in every thread when someone's asking for purchasing advice or whatever. It does seem like it's an obsessive/compulsive disorder of some kind.
 
#102
GreenWithEnvy said:
Bongolation, if you are obsessed with understanding things, please try to understand this point of view:

Again, I will say, if you have the volume control up 100 percent, and if you turn the J off, you have a perfect P sound. And with all the P/Js I've played in the last few years, you can turn of the J pick-ups up little by little, and bring as much of the j pick-up sound as you want to into your sound, smoothly, from from 0 to 10, with no increase or decrease in volume. I'm not deaf.

So I say, if used this way, there is no syndrome mucking anything up and that's why tens of thousands of p/j players use p/j's.

And basically, when someone asks innocent questions like "should I buy a P/J, what do you guys think", there no reason to muck up the conversation with what basically is "no, they all suck, they all sound like crap because they have a syndrome, and I hate them, and I'm right, because it's physics, you are all deaf and in denial." That's not helpful to the guy asking for advice. There is not a damn thing wrong with wiring up VVT, they don't sound like crap, and that's why people have been doing this since the 60s. If a bunch of geeks want to have a thread about engineering principles and inductance and resistance and all that, it's all well and good, and I would probably read it with great interest. But I just don't see where when someone asks about a p/j, that a "problem" that nobody notices or hears has to pollute the advice that p/j users are trying to impart to the guy asking the question.

I'm just saying. Interesting conversation and topic, I appreciate your lust for knowledge and your generosity in sharing your knowledge with others, but the P/J bashing doesn't have to appear in every thread when someone's asking for purchasing advice or whatever. It does seem like it's an obsessive/compulsive disorder of some kind.
Click to expand...

+1

Ignorance is bliss. I'm lovin my P/J. I've been through J's, P's, SCPB's and a Wunkay. I prefer the feel and sound of a Pbass these days and I find the J p.u. adds that little bit extra when I want it. My interest is in hearing why P/J users choose to keep using it and the kind of music they are creating with it.

And like GreenWithEnvy said "If loving my p/j is wrong, I don't want to be right" :bassist:
 
#103
I think this is the first time ever my first post in a forum went 100+ replies...hehe! I'm still hunting for that perfect bass...seen some awesome stuff here in the classifieds! I need to sell some of my stuff listed on CL & then I'll be able to buy something else!!
 
#104
GreenWithEnvy said:
Again, I will say, if you have the volume control up 100 percent, and if you turn the J off, you have a perfect P sound.
Click to expand...
That's almost but not quite true, especially with 250K pots (never mind the different P pickups usually used in P/Js), but you don't like technical explanations, so I won't give one.

And basically, when someone asks innocent questions like "should I buy a P/J, what do you guys think", there no reason to muck up the conversation with what basically is "no, they all suck, they all sound like crap because they have a syndrome, and I hate them, and I'm right, because it's physics, you are all deaf and in denial." That's not helpful to the guy asking for advice.
Click to expand...
OK, the next time someone asks me why wiggling the rotation of his volume control sounds like a wah pedal and then drops off to nothing, I'll refer him to you so you can tell him how it's not so and he's deaf and he's imagining it.

That'll be helpful, right? ;)

Anyway, you're mischaracterizing my P/J position, which is simply that the pickups are usually different than normal P & J ones, somewhat compromised (like the Fender 56120/1 + 55340 set), and the usual control configuration (V/V/T) doesn't work all that well or maybe barely at all depending on your luck.

If the prospective mark can live with that, then by all means rock out, but it will somewhat cut into the "definately awesum" quotient.

Wiring configurations providing for positive switching-out of passive mixing of pickups -- now that you bring it up -- predates unswitched the Fender V/V/T Jazz wiring by about two decades because the inherent problems were already well recognized.

The point (again) is that the severity of the problem varies from instrument to instrument -- but the usual (V/V/T) control wiring will never work really properly but will frequently work really, really badly.
 
#108
Bongolation said:
I don't work for those people here. I work for the 1%-2% on the forums (often lurkers) who want to understand things as clearly and cold-bloodedly as I do.
Click to expand...

Here's the problem - making music isn't a cold-blooded process. Gear is part of the equation, but maths don't fully explain what works for an individual.

While the pursuit of knowledge and understanding is worthwhile, wishing to distill everything down to "the answer" is folly IME.

Balance is the trick - be it PJ pups or analysis vs. emotion. That is widom :D
 
#110
I dont understand one thing - if the problem with P/J and VVT combination lies in different output of each pickup then the same problem must be with your normal jazz bass which also has two pickups, right? At least I dont think its possible to make two pickups with exactly same output so it shouldnt matter if the pickup combination is J/J or splitJ/splitJ or P/J or P/splitJ, right?

and also - if the VVT solution is bad, is Blend/V/T solution better?
 
#111
Interesting thread. About 10 years ago I added a J pickup to my Yamaha BB300, EVH style. It was all eyeballed, not measured, and I when I wired it together, I just connected the J pup to the volume pot until it worked. I'm sure it's not wired properly, because if the volume pot is turned all the way up, the pups cut out. I love the sound, and even tried to rewire it properly, but didn't like the sound as much. At one time I contemplated adding a blend pot, but don't want to mess up my tone.
 
#112
Bongolation said:
The point (again) is that the severity of the problem varies from instrument to instrument -- but the usual (V/V/T) control wiring will never work really properly but will frequently work really, really badly.
Click to expand...

I'm not up on the P/J discussions, but you've got my interest peaked. I have a degree in physics, so I get the numbers and the circuit theory. Can you answer some questions for me or at least point me in the right direction for finding the answers?

[DEL]Can you give me an example of a VVT PJ that works "really, really badly?" Is it instrument-specific or is there a particular model that fails your functionality test? [/DEL] (edit: You already answered these questions.)

What parameters define proper functionality as opposed to improper functionality?

What are we expecting of a VVT PJ circuit that isn't being met?

Why aren't we discussing also J/MM or P/MM circuits?

Thanks.
 
#114
Aerodyne P totally rules but like you say, hard to get. I love my aerodyne J! My only complaint is that the pickups are significantly louder than my MIA standard J (not a problem per se so I use the term complaint loosely. Obviously it is not an issue on nights when I play only one bass!)
 
#115
superjesus said:
I'm not up on the P/J discussions, but you've got my interest peaked. I have a degree in physics, so I get the numbers and the circuit theory. Can you answer some questions for me or at least point me in the right direction for finding the answers?

[DEL]Can you give me an example of a VVT PJ that works "really, really badly?" Is it instrument-specific or is there a particular model that fails your functionality test? [/DEL] (edit: You already answered these questions.)

What parameters define proper functionality as opposed to improper functionality?

What are we expecting of a VVT PJ circuit that isn't being met?

Why aren't we discussing also J/MM or P/MM circuits?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Interesting questions that I would also like to know.
 
#117
FArfel said:
Interesting questions that I would also like to know.
Click to expand...

It's about how, in a passive setup, the pickups' loading each other causes the volume controls to be non-linear, sometimes severely, depending on the position of one vs. the other. And their tendency toward acting more like tone controls than volumes. This all happens on a Jazz bass, but its much more manageable because the pickup values are very close to each other. But on a P/J, since the pickup values are so different, the loading becomes extremely lopsided and(arguably) very difficult and unpredictable to manage. I love Jazz basses but passive P/J's don't work for me at all. Active ones(which do away with the problems mentioned) are great though, IMO.
 

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