Cool. Think they'd play nice with the pre-amp and other magic stuff in the bass? Was at least planning on he same manufacturer, like a dimarzio split p and model j and wiring them to the existing circutry...
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P/J Single-Coil: Hum Cancelling?
- Thread starter pbasswil
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Cool. Think they'd play nice with the pre-amp and other magic stuff in the bass? Was at least planning on he same manufacturer, like a dimarzio split p and model j and wiring them to the existing circutry...
They should work fine. At the moment your bass has passive high-impedance pickups, and an active preamp. You are simply swapping these out the stock pickups for a different set of passive high-impedance pickups. By sticking with two pickups from the same manufacturer, that the manufacturer also recommends pairing up, you can guarantee that you won't get phase issues when you wire it up.
If you have a hunt on this forum I guarantee somebody has already used an Area J with a preamp. My only concern for you is that the Area J is Dimarzio's stab at creating a vintage-voiced noiseless Jazz pickup, and may seem quieter than the P pickup you pair it with. I would consider, personally, an Ultra J or even a Model J for a better blend of pickups. Dimarzio recommend pairing the Ultra J with a Split P. When I had a Yamaha BB424 bass the bridge pickup was definitely hotter than a stock Jazz bass pickup, to balance better with the P pickup in that bass.
So I just had a thought, would it be possible to wire a PJ bass so that the P coils were RWRP to J coil and cancel hum so it would work like a J bass? And could you use a selector to put the P coils out of phase with one another when you wanted to solo the P to maintain hum-canceling?
Is it possible? Sure. You'd have to take the same half of two different P pickups (EA+EA or DG+DG), wire them in series, and then find out which one hum cancels when used with the J pickup.
But why on earth would you want to do that? It would just be begging for all kinds of problems, plus you'd end up with a bass with which you couldn't solo either pickup. The much easier and more cost effective way to eliminate hum is to get a hum-canceling J to go with your already hum-canceling P.
Wouldn't putting the P pickup halves out of phase with each other cancel hum? And because they each sense two strings unless you really bend the strings there wouldn't be any tonal difference.
The two halves of the P pickup already cancel hum together. A P bass with one split coil pickup on it is a hum-free bass (unless something is seriously wrong with the pickup).
You were talking about something different -- you asked about wiring a PJ so it would work like a JJ. In order to do that, you would need the two halves of a P pickup to work together to create the opposite polarity and windings of a single coil J pickup. That can only be done by taking the same half from two different pickups and wiring them together to use as one pickup. But it's a bad idea. Way too many potential problems for way too little of a reward.
You were talking about something different -- you asked about wiring a PJ so it would work like a JJ. In order to do that, you would need the two halves of a P pickup to work together to create the opposite polarity and windings of a single coil J pickup. That can only be done by taking the same half from two different pickups and wiring them together to use as one pickup. But it's a bad idea. Way too many potential problems for way too little of a reward.
I understand that it would need to be two like polarity like winding coils for the P but if you put in a switch to go from P/J with like polarity like winding P coils to the P with like polarity Reverse winding could so they are out of phase wouldn't that cancel hum?
You would need a third coil on your P pickup to be able to do that.
Honestly, from the bottom of my heart, cross my heart and hope to die, what you are suggesting would only be done by someone whose primary goal is tinkering, not canceling hum. There's nothing wrong with tinkering, but if your goal is to cancel hum on a PJ bass, don't mess with the pickup that already cancels hum. Just get yourself a J pickup that also cancels hum. There are a lot of them out there. You can spend anything from about $70 to $200+ to get a new one, you might be able to find used ones for less. Trying to do what you described would cost a helluva lot more, and there's no guarantee it would even work.
My favorite types of hum canceling J pickups are the split-coils -- they have two coils in line wired in series, with each half covering two strings like the P pickup. There are stacks, with two coils, one wound on top of the other. Less common and more expensive are the parallel coils, with two very thin coils wrapped side-to-side. There are others, I'll let you do your own research if you're interested.
Honestly, from the bottom of my heart, cross my heart and hope to die, what you are suggesting would only be done by someone whose primary goal is tinkering, not canceling hum. There's nothing wrong with tinkering, but if your goal is to cancel hum on a PJ bass, don't mess with the pickup that already cancels hum. Just get yourself a J pickup that also cancels hum. There are a lot of them out there. You can spend anything from about $70 to $200+ to get a new one, you might be able to find used ones for less. Trying to do what you described would cost a helluva lot more, and there's no guarantee it would even work.
My favorite types of hum canceling J pickups are the split-coils -- they have two coils in line wired in series, with each half covering two strings like the P pickup. There are stacks, with two coils, one wound on top of the other. Less common and more expensive are the parallel coils, with two very thin coils wrapped side-to-side. There are others, I'll let you do your own research if you're interested.
A single coil jazz pickup in a p/j bass will always make noise, it will hum at any time that the jazz pickup is being used, shielding can help with outside interference, that's what it helps with, nothing more, the hum from a single coil pickup isn't outside interference, shielding will not change that hum..not even a little. I have 2 p/j basses, both have a split coil jazz pickup, and a standard P pickup, they do not hum, ( I changed to split coil jazz pickups because I couldn't live with the hum). Things like blending in more P pickup, less J pickup, or rolling down a tone knob will diminish some noise, but, not all of it. I'm using a Fender P pickup, and a Fender Super55 j in one p/j, and a GZR p/j set (normal p, split coil j), in my other p/j.
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This is a tinkerer question but it does have practical uses, like having a true single coil bridge pickup (which some think is superior) and 2 rather 1 hum canceling position. I don't see why you would need a third coil on the P pickup, you would need a switch but not another coil , with two identical coils on the P if you wire them out of phase won't it cancel hum? That's how humbuckers work isn't we only reverse the polarity of the magnets so that the signal from the string is in phase not because we need to for humcancelling.
Wiring a P/J as a J/J can be done, just keep in mind it will....still hum. Only when both pickups are at equal volumes (aprox.) will the hum go away, kinda defeats the purpose, if getting rid of single coil hum is the goal. You'd only have one narrow blend position of the 2 pickups that would be truly hum free. Finding a humbucking J pickup that you like the sound of, (some sound amazing), is the most direct way to no hum. I know this because I tried it, and was ...disappointed.
I understand what you're trying to explain, but I think you don't quite understand what it is that makes a P pickup cancel hum. The key is RWRP, which you might have seen in these discussions. It stands for reverse wound, reverse polarity. What it means is that one coil is a right-hand wind, and the other is a left-hand wind, and the polarity of the magnets is opposite (the magnets are installed upside down in one of the coils.) That's not something you can change with the flip of a switch.
Your idea, if I'm reading you right, is that you want to wire a PJ bass so it will behave like a jazz bass with two single coil pickups in it, and your reason for wanting this is based on the premise that single coil J pickups are considered superior by some. That premise is true, but it needs a second look.
There are two main groups of people who have strong opinions when it comes to J pickups -- those for whom the tone of the pure single coil sound is the primary consideration, and those for whom a good sound without any extra noise is a priority. Those who believe single coil J pickups are superior are typically people who aren't bothered by hum -- either it just doesn't bother them, or they have decided "it's the price of good tone" as my guitar playing friend put it. In other words, the people who say single coil J pickups are superior are not the same people who will go to any lengths to reduce or eliminate hum.
On the other hand, those who can't stand noise are the ones who do things like shield their bass and put in hum-canceling J pickups. Why? Because they believe that good tone + crappy noise + crappy tone. (I am in this group.) In other words, single coil pickups are NOT superior if getting rid of hum is one of your goals. But we don't believe using a hum canceling J pickup necessarily means any trade-off in tone, because there are some damn good sounding hum canceling J pickups out there.
I love PJs but I wouldn't consider one without a humbucking J. 1-Because it kills hum and 2-Because the higher output from the humbucker will compensate the difference in level between P and J.
Why would I lose the P sound completely? It's still two coils in series each sensing one pair of strings, and I'll admit I'm not super familiar with the noise issues inherent to out of phase other then that two coils wired out of phase cancel hum and we swap the magnets around so that the signal we want is in phase.
I think Growlmonkee overstated that particular point. "You would lose having a P bass sound completely, as neither position on that switch would leave you with an intact P bass pickup." As long as things are correctly wired and soldered, breaking the "intactness" of a P pickup by putting a switch between the two halves does nothing. When the switch is in the "normal" position, there is no difference between and intact P pickup and one which has a switch installed.
But I'm pretty sure that if you do put a switch in and flip it, it's not going to do what you think it will. It won't become a non-hum-canceling pickup, because the things that make it hum canceling (direction of the coil windings and orientation of the magnets in each coil) aren't going to change when you flip the switch.
I might be confused, (wrong) so.. here's a question...what would using 2 "EA" halves do in relation to the magnet's orientation, I thought the magnets were reversed on the EA, and DG halves?
You're not wrong. The magnets are reversed on one of the halves.
I actually mentioned using two EA halves or two DG halves (whichever ones end up being opposite the single coil J bridge pickup) to accomplish what Will_White wanted to try, wiring a PJ like a JJ with single coils. And honestly, I hope someone tries it and reports on it, because I'm interested to hear how it works out.
But I think it's a bad idea because (A) you'd be ruining two P pickups and (B) I don't think it would actually eliminate hum.
I think there would still be an imbalance between the coils, meaning there would still be hum when both pickups are cranked. There might be a sweet spot where hum is eliminated, but then the bass would be limited to that volume combination if the goal is to eliminate hum. It's much easier/cheaper/effective to just get a good hum canceling J pickup to go with the P pickup, and leave the P pickup alone.
