PA Mains--Bass Without A Sub

[pepj]

Those DZR12's must be some bar because QSC K series take a lot of stick and deliver.
Our vox sound through them is very impressive and sound better than any mid price range tops I've heard.
Really must check out those DZR.
The DXR were good soundwise, but didn't inspire the same cinfidence overall.

 

[Bullitt5135]

Last weekend's pregame gig at Comerica Park in Detroit — using just a pair of RCF NX32As with no subwoofer. We go light and tight on this gig since load-in is a bit of a hassle, and it's a short set. Everything runs through the PA — no backline amps. The bass was DI and sounded great to my ears.

This band usually rolls with 11 musicians (including four vocalists and a horn section), and the NX32’s 3" voice coil and wood cabinet really help with clarity. I had to push the PA pretty hard to compete with the loud ambient crowd noise, but the limiters never even flickered.

The NX32s are a bit heavier than your typical 40 lb. target, but they absolutely deliver on tone and punch. The RCF ART 932's have a plastic boxes and weigh in at around 42 lbs. Personally, I would prefer the 932's 3" voice coil over the 912's 1.75" voice coil – that being said, I wouldn't turn my nose up at the 912's.

 

[Bullitt5135]

I like the idea of experimenting with simply bringing my own bass cabinets and using them to help augment the mains--but keeping some of the higher register in the mains for added dispersion/broader presence. In most of the clubs we play, we DO like to leave space for folks on the periphery to be able to talk--that is, as suggested, we are not super loud. But that element of extra bass up front near the stage/dance floor would probably be plenty for our purposes--at least for the bass guitar.

I've experimented a little bit with this. I have a Soundcraft ui24r digital mixer, and I tried running a "bass on AUX" setup — but using my bass rig instead of a subwoofer. I ran a DI for the bass into the mixer, then I ran an AUX out from the mixer to may GK bass amp and 212 cab, which was placed up front under a main speaker. The room was a goofy setup (long and narrow, and we were setup on the long wall), but I liked what I was hearing. The setup allowed me to take the bass completely out of the mains, which helped with vocals and clarity). IMO the bass sounds better and more focused from a bass rig than a PA system. In addition to the controls on the amp, I could fine-tune the volume, EQ, and comp of the bass rig from by iPad/mixer. I could run the bass rig to cover the room without drowning the stage in low end volume.

 

[pepj]

Summer season outside and we are running k10 tops with a single sub to around 200.
Mot felt the need to go 2 subs yet but we will as have been requested to run sound for a Trib act for a low key local gig.
They normally do theatre circuits which is a whole new level of sound that we cant cater for anyway.
Currently the drums are fully mic'd as are keys and sax.
Don't really want any more gigs like this so they are limited favours with cash.

Very impressed with the QSC K series but its key to understand its limitations and stay within them.
Its about quality rather than volume.

 

[Kevorargh]

I actually run a PA with QSC CP12's and they work great for the smaller to medium venues we play - of course we all run amps as well and I don;t mic the drums - no need for the places we play.

 

[DCErik]

We've got a gig coming up (November) at a venue with just a pair of tops, and I've been toying with the idea of running the bass and kick through my bass amp for a 'sub'. Guess I could either run a kick mic to the 2nd input on my Stomp, or use the Aux Sub method. Will I hurt my amp running drums through it, though?

 

[pepj]

It will probably sound awful, depending on how great the kit is tuned, and if it isn't, I can imagine you'll spend so much time chasing your tail.
As good as bass amps can be.. intended use is a good rule to follow.
Truth is this is likely going to be hit and miss and you should try it before hand.

But I'm thinking muggers buddle.
It might get you by...if you are happy to 'get by'

 

[DCErik]

It will probably sound awful, depending on how great the kit is tuned, and if it isn't, I can imagine you'll spend so much time chasing your tail.
As good as bass amps can be.. intended use is a good rule to follow.
Truth is this is likely going to be hit and miss and you should try it before hand.

But I'm thinking muggers buddle.
It might get you by...if you are happy to 'get by'

Yeah. Even as I was typing it out I was considering all the ways that it's a substandard idea. Thanks!

 

[walterw]

I am looking for mains that will best handle the low frequencies at "moderate", but definitely "gig/bar" volumes--and still capture a solid bottom end feeling, WITHOUT a sub...The other factor is weight--like to keep it right at 40 lbs.

sorry, this just isn't a thing

people will make do with all sorts of sub-par setups and tell themselves it sounds fine but this isn't a thing at anything over like coffeeshop volume

at the very least if you did this, you'd want to go back to a real bass amp and keep the bass and drums out of the PA, using the PA just for vocals

maybe look into something like an EV evolve 50 stick PA, that'll be a tops&tub all-in-one setup that sounds great (including having actual sub low end) at moderate volume and is light and easy to set up