By the way, are any of the "old timer" Palatino owners still active here/still own and play their Palatinos?? There was a lot of chatter in the 2006 time frame, but not so much lately.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass Palatino Megathread part II
- Thread starter bassbob
- Start date
Well, it arrived and I've unpacked it! I'm very excited, to say the least.
I will be uploading a bunch pics, later (photobucket seems to take its sweet time, these days).
I have some major concerns about some of the grain on the neck (questions and pics to follow) and questions about setting up the bridge, as well as the rubber under the bridge feet and pickup. I hope some of you can help.
I will begin with my questions, as they concern me most of all. I will then follow up with my overall initial impression.
I've read through just about all of the posts in megathread I and II, so please excuse me if I'm asking questions already asked because it is a lot of information.
1) Regarding the placement of the inner tube rubber under the pickup and under the feet of the bridge. The pickup is sealed within some heat shrink tubing:
Is this an "upgrade" from the factory, negating the need for inner tube rubber being placed under the it and the feet of the bridge?
2) I've read about, after placing the bridge in its "holder", then tilting it one way and the other till finding the sweet spot. Ok, will do.
My question is regarding bridge height. For the moment, I plan on playing only with my fingers (no bowing. "Arco", right? See, I can hang with the cool kids
) mainly swing type music, maybe some more bluesy type stuff, eventually some rockabilly. I have NO IDEA what height(s) to set the bridge at.
3) MAJOR concern about some of the grain on the neck. There are 2 very dark, vertical lines running up the center portion and right side of the neck. They follow the grain pattern. I can NOT feel them with my fingernail, but, I don't know if they are a crack waiting to happen or if this is ok and a natural phenomenon. They are much thicker and darker in color than any of the other grain lines.
In the pic showing my hand, You can see one of the lines running from the tip of my thumb down the entire length of my hand. The second line is about 1 inch to the right of it, and slightly shorter in length.
In the same pic, at the "butt" of my palm, just to the right, there are 2 parallel lines, about 1/2" long, that are actually divots I can feel in the neck. These are not grain lines, but from something actually pressing up against the neck. Although I can feel them, I'll force myself to get used to them.
In the pic further down in regards to the small chunk missing from the fingerboard, you can see the second, dark, vertical grain line. Any input?
Another pic of the 2 dark lines running with the grain. They are MUCH darker and more prominent in person.
3) There is a small chunk taken out of the side of the fingerboard about half way down the neck. I don't think it will hinder playability, so I'll ignore it. (Here you can also the the second of the two dark, vertical grain lines.
Those are my major concerns and questions. ANy and all info and input will be most welcome. I need to find out if the grain lines in the neck are going to be an issue so that I should send it back, or if it will be ok. Thanks!
I will be uploading a bunch pics, later (photobucket seems to take its sweet time, these days).
I have some major concerns about some of the grain on the neck (questions and pics to follow) and questions about setting up the bridge, as well as the rubber under the bridge feet and pickup. I hope some of you can help.
I will begin with my questions, as they concern me most of all. I will then follow up with my overall initial impression.
I've read through just about all of the posts in megathread I and II, so please excuse me if I'm asking questions already asked because it is a lot of information.
1) Regarding the placement of the inner tube rubber under the pickup and under the feet of the bridge. The pickup is sealed within some heat shrink tubing:
Is this an "upgrade" from the factory, negating the need for inner tube rubber being placed under the it and the feet of the bridge?
2) I've read about, after placing the bridge in its "holder", then tilting it one way and the other till finding the sweet spot. Ok, will do.
My question is regarding bridge height. For the moment, I plan on playing only with my fingers (no bowing. "Arco", right? See, I can hang with the cool kids
) mainly swing type music, maybe some more bluesy type stuff, eventually some rockabilly. I have NO IDEA what height(s) to set the bridge at.3) MAJOR concern about some of the grain on the neck. There are 2 very dark, vertical lines running up the center portion and right side of the neck. They follow the grain pattern. I can NOT feel them with my fingernail, but, I don't know if they are a crack waiting to happen or if this is ok and a natural phenomenon. They are much thicker and darker in color than any of the other grain lines.
In the pic showing my hand, You can see one of the lines running from the tip of my thumb down the entire length of my hand. The second line is about 1 inch to the right of it, and slightly shorter in length.
In the same pic, at the "butt" of my palm, just to the right, there are 2 parallel lines, about 1/2" long, that are actually divots I can feel in the neck. These are not grain lines, but from something actually pressing up against the neck. Although I can feel them, I'll force myself to get used to them.
In the pic further down in regards to the small chunk missing from the fingerboard, you can see the second, dark, vertical grain line. Any input?
Another pic of the 2 dark lines running with the grain. They are MUCH darker and more prominent in person.
3) There is a small chunk taken out of the side of the fingerboard about half way down the neck. I don't think it will hinder playability, so I'll ignore it. (Here you can also the the second of the two dark, vertical grain lines.
Those are my major concerns and questions. ANy and all info and input will be most welcome. I need to find out if the grain lines in the neck are going to be an issue so that I should send it back, or if it will be ok. Thanks!
I woundn't be too happy that the grain lines are not straight close to the body. I'm not sure if this might make the neck too weak.
I wouldn't care about the coloured grains. As long as there is no gap, it is only a cosmetic issue.
The gap in the fingerboard is not nice, but no problem for playing. Maybe a reason to get the instrument a bit cheaper?
The shrink wrap tube will damp a little bit, which might be good. Adding a inner tube rubber sheet might damp too much, but you need to check it out yourself. Also a layer or two of cardboard or wood veneer can change the sound. But you need to find out what comes closest to your taste. I suggest not adding more than half a millimeter. Since these are reversible modifications, just try them now. You can still send the instrument back (after removing your mod).
Bridge height at the end of the fingerboard (space between fingerboard and underside of the string):
G: 5 to 7 mm
E: 9 to 12 mm
A and D in between. For steel strings a bit lower. Get good upright strings, probably a bit softer (in stiffness and tension) than the avarage double bass string. If you ever want to bow, try to make the bowing angles (the angle you get touching one string only with the bow) equal and large enough. On an EUB this (usually) only affects the inner (two) strings.
I wouldn't care about the coloured grains. As long as there is no gap, it is only a cosmetic issue.
The gap in the fingerboard is not nice, but no problem for playing. Maybe a reason to get the instrument a bit cheaper?
The shrink wrap tube will damp a little bit, which might be good. Adding a inner tube rubber sheet might damp too much, but you need to check it out yourself. Also a layer or two of cardboard or wood veneer can change the sound. But you need to find out what comes closest to your taste. I suggest not adding more than half a millimeter. Since these are reversible modifications, just try them now. You can still send the instrument back (after removing your mod).
Bridge height at the end of the fingerboard (space between fingerboard and underside of the string):
G: 5 to 7 mm
E: 9 to 12 mm
A and D in between. For steel strings a bit lower. Get good upright strings, probably a bit softer (in stiffness and tension) than the avarage double bass string. If you ever want to bow, try to make the bowing angles (the angle you get touching one string only with the bow) equal and large enough. On an EUB this (usually) only affects the inner (two) strings.
Thanks, very much, for your information!
Regarding neck strength in regards to grain line direction, someone else also made mention. I hope others will offer their comments on this.
Since it doesn't seem too much of a problem to take the bridge on and off, I can give it a try as is, and then try it with rubber added. Because I do not yet really know how to play an EUB, I don't know that I'll be the best judge.
Due to mention that the direction of the grain of the neck may inherently cause weakness, I'm including a link to a picture library of shots from the heel of the neck to the tuning peg box center view, from the left and from the right. I'd appreciate any input.
Thanks.
http://s160.photobucket.com/user/gklaskaris/slideshow/Instruments/Harley%20Benton%20EUB500/HB%20EUB500%20Neck%20Only
Thanks.
http://s160.photobucket.com/user/gklaskaris/slideshow/Instruments/Harley%20Benton%20EUB500/HB%20EUB500%20Neck%20Only
I think the fingerboard, if glued on correctly, may distribute the force to the lower neck part. ... or not.
If I had this instrument bought new, I would at least try to get a different one or get some written stuff from the seller that, if the neck will break during the next ten years, you will get a full refund (but you won't get that). If I won't get a replacement instrument I would seriously think about returning the instrument and look for something else.
If I had this instrument bought new, I would at least try to get a different one or get some written stuff from the seller that, if the neck will break during the next ten years, you will get a full refund (but you won't get that). If I won't get a replacement instrument I would seriously think about returning the instrument and look for something else.
I bought it from Thomann, in Germany. They will most definitely do a return/exchange, no questions asked. They also have, I believe, a 3 year warranty.
I'm a bit torn, right now. I'm hoping some more folks will chime in with their opinion.
I'm a bit torn, right now. I'm hoping some more folks will chime in with their opinion.
Well, I spoke with my Customer Service Rep at Thomann.
He was very helpful.
I sent pictures and a detailed description of the "problem" to their Service Dept.
They will give me their opinion on the issue with the grain lines on the neck.
If I decide to send it back, they will pay for all shipping charges, in both directions, and send me a new item, free of charge. My main concern there, and one which I addressed with them, is that if I do get sent a new unit, I would like it to be fully inspected to be free of any damage (gouges in the neck, chunks missing from the fretboard, etc) and that it have a neck with straight grain lines.
I should be hearing back from them within 48 hours. Until then, I can just stare at the box with my new EUB sitting in it. A perfect example of "so close, yet so far"
He was very helpful.
I sent pictures and a detailed description of the "problem" to their Service Dept.
They will give me their opinion on the issue with the grain lines on the neck.
If I decide to send it back, they will pay for all shipping charges, in both directions, and send me a new item, free of charge. My main concern there, and one which I addressed with them, is that if I do get sent a new unit, I would like it to be fully inspected to be free of any damage (gouges in the neck, chunks missing from the fretboard, etc) and that it have a neck with straight grain lines.
I should be hearing back from them within 48 hours. Until then, I can just stare at the box with my new EUB sitting in it. A perfect example of "so close, yet so far"
So, I heard back from Thomann. Their reply was specific regarding the missing piece of fingerboard and the 2 dings in the neck. I can replace the entire instrument or they will give me a 40 Euro discount.
Regarding the grain of the neck, their response was:
"Regarding the wood grains, they are not a relevant matter and we can’t influence them."
I don't know what exactly that means. I responded asking for clarification of whether, by "they are not a relevant matter" that it should not pose a problem or that they mean, it's not something we can fix. I'll wait for their response to make a final decision.
Regarding the grain of the neck, their response was:
"Regarding the wood grains, they are not a relevant matter and we can’t influence them."
I don't know what exactly that means. I responded asking for clarification of whether, by "they are not a relevant matter" that it should not pose a problem or that they mean, it's not something we can fix. I'll wait for their response to make a final decision.
If they offer a return free of shipping charges, I would take that route.
If they think your current instrument has no substantial problems, then even if they do inspect the new instrument, it doesn't help.
The neck is a weak point and if you can avoid that by getting a new one better wait for the new instrument and be more happy than constantly watching if the neck might break or not.
If you had no choice (bought used or something similar) then you can stay with it, it won't break soon, but why buy an instrument with a weak point if you can get a better one.
I would get it replaced, but it's your decision.
If they think your current instrument has no substantial problems, then even if they do inspect the new instrument, it doesn't help.
The neck is a weak point and if you can avoid that by getting a new one better wait for the new instrument and be more happy than constantly watching if the neck might break or not.
If you had no choice (bought used or something similar) then you can stay with it, it won't break soon, but why buy an instrument with a weak point if you can get a better one.
I would get it replaced, but it's your decision.
So, after talking more with Thomann's repair department, I've decided to hang on to the EUB. I have a 30 day money-back/trade guarantee (they pay for the shipping) and a 3 year warranty.
After everyone's input and the info I got from Thomann, I'm pretty confident all will be well with the bass. I am going to set it up and play it. Then, if before 30 days something doesn't seem right, I'll send it back, free of charge, and get another.
After the 30 days, if anything happens in 3 years, I can send it back to be replaced.
Sounds good to me.
And, I got a 40 Euro gift certificate to make up for the minor nick on the side of the fingerboard and the dings in the neck.
I'd like to thank everyone for the help and info. You helped me out a lot.
After everyone's input and the info I got from Thomann, I'm pretty confident all will be well with the bass. I am going to set it up and play it. Then, if before 30 days something doesn't seem right, I'll send it back, free of charge, and get another.
After the 30 days, if anything happens in 3 years, I can send it back to be replaced.
Sounds good to me.
And, I got a 40 Euro gift certificate to make up for the minor nick on the side of the fingerboard and the dings in the neck.
I'd like to thank everyone for the help and info. You helped me out a lot.
Hi again, fellow Palatino lovers.
I have a question about how to install the bridge. I apologize in advance for any questions that may seem obvious, but I'm new to any time of UB. I've read all of the various posts but I either a) don't fully understand and/or b) don't remember specific details due to the large amount of info.
I just setup up the EUB, fresh out of its box. Installed the bridge.
First off, I notice that it is not a tight fit in the area that it sits, atop the pickup.
Should I try to center it? Does it matter?
I read about there being a sweet spot, but I think that dealt more with angle.
That brings me to my next question. After installing the bridge and tightening the strings to pitch (E, A, D, G), I noticed that the bridge was no longer sitting flush to the body. It had tilted towards the direction of the peg box. Is this how it should be? Or should it sit flush with the body? Someone wrote about angling the bridge, but they mentioned it being towards the tail stock. I've de-tuned the bass for the time being, till I find out what the right setup is.
I also noticed that the D and G strings are a lot tighter when tuned, than the E and A. Is this normal?
Thanks, in advance, for your help.
I have a question about how to install the bridge. I apologize in advance for any questions that may seem obvious, but I'm new to any time of UB. I've read all of the various posts but I either a) don't fully understand and/or b) don't remember specific details due to the large amount of info.
I just setup up the EUB, fresh out of its box. Installed the bridge.
First off, I notice that it is not a tight fit in the area that it sits, atop the pickup.
Should I try to center it? Does it matter?
I read about there being a sweet spot, but I think that dealt more with angle.
That brings me to my next question. After installing the bridge and tightening the strings to pitch (E, A, D, G), I noticed that the bridge was no longer sitting flush to the body. It had tilted towards the direction of the peg box. Is this how it should be? Or should it sit flush with the body? Someone wrote about angling the bridge, but they mentioned it being towards the tail stock. I've de-tuned the bass for the time being, till I find out what the right setup is.
I also noticed that the D and G strings are a lot tighter when tuned, than the E and A. Is this normal?
Thanks, in advance, for your help.
Update:
I've re-tuned it and have gotten to bridge to sit flat. This seems to be how it should normally be. Please, someone, let me know.
This is fun
I've re-tuned it and have gotten to bridge to sit flat. This seems to be how it should normally be. Please, someone, let me know.
This is fun
I still have some bridge questions, if anyone is inclined to answer.
I've just installed rubber under the feet of the bridge (but not under the pickup). The bass sounds much better. Fuller. Less tinny. I've never played an acoustic bass, so I don't really know if it sounds like one or not.
When installing the rubber, it's evident that the bridge can be moved around quite a bit - towards the tail piece, towards the peg box, left and right. I would assume that even a small shift in position will alter the sound. Correct?
So, is it simply trial and error to find the "sweet spot" for bridge placement?
I also noticed that, when installing the bridge after having removed it, when I tune it up, the bridge has a tendency to be pulled so that it leans towards the peg box. Prior to there being too much tension on the bridge, I will push it back towards the tail piece, so that the feet sit flat when the strings are finally at tension and in tune.
Is this how these bridges normally react? Again, it seems a bit arbitrary and that you HOPE that the bridge is sitting properly when finally in tune.
I'd appreciate any information and input. Thanks.
I've just installed rubber under the feet of the bridge (but not under the pickup). The bass sounds much better. Fuller. Less tinny. I've never played an acoustic bass, so I don't really know if it sounds like one or not.
When installing the rubber, it's evident that the bridge can be moved around quite a bit - towards the tail piece, towards the peg box, left and right. I would assume that even a small shift in position will alter the sound. Correct?
So, is it simply trial and error to find the "sweet spot" for bridge placement?
I also noticed that, when installing the bridge after having removed it, when I tune it up, the bridge has a tendency to be pulled so that it leans towards the peg box. Prior to there being too much tension on the bridge, I will push it back towards the tail piece, so that the feet sit flat when the strings are finally at tension and in tune.
Is this how these bridges normally react? Again, it seems a bit arbitrary and that you HOPE that the bridge is sitting properly when finally in tune.
I'd appreciate any information and input. Thanks.
No replies about my bridge questions. That's ok, though. I've been using trial and error.
I have installed inner tube rubber under the pickup and bridge. It has made the bass sound very full and warm.
I do have a bit of an "issue" thought. The E, D and G strings, when played, sound very crisp, loud, full, warm etc. A good sound.
The A string, though sounds "hollow". That's the best way I can describe it. I feel like I get much more finger noise out of it than an actual loud
note being played, whether open string or pressed not on the fingerboard. It is quite different than the other strings.
I've tried moving the bridge a bit forward and back to find the "sweet spot" as mentioned in Megathread I. That hasn't changed anything.
I also removed the rubber from under the foot on the bass side of the bridge but also, no change.
I've tried adjusting the eq settings on my amp, also the tone controls on the bass, also no change.
Any suggestions? Thanks.
I have installed inner tube rubber under the pickup and bridge. It has made the bass sound very full and warm.
I do have a bit of an "issue" thought. The E, D and G strings, when played, sound very crisp, loud, full, warm etc. A good sound.
The A string, though sounds "hollow". That's the best way I can describe it. I feel like I get much more finger noise out of it than an actual loud
note being played, whether open string or pressed not on the fingerboard. It is quite different than the other strings.
I've tried moving the bridge a bit forward and back to find the "sweet spot" as mentioned in Megathread I. That hasn't changed anything.
I also removed the rubber from under the foot on the bass side of the bridge but also, no change.
I've tried adjusting the eq settings on my amp, also the tone controls on the bass, also no change.
Any suggestions? Thanks.
Howdy Y'all
Ok, maybe I am lucky some days... I just did the out of the box setup on a Paly VE-550 Sunburst model. It went very well and while I had to keep an eye on that bridge wanting to tilt forward and constantly checking it and correcting where necessary, it tuned up fairly well. Set the strings and tune held for about one song. I set the action closer to a jazz level since I cannot seem to find any reference of the level for Bluegrass.
After the second true up and set, it held tune for a while longer, 3 songs. So it seems like every other stringed angel when you put new strings on.. Other than that it's really nice.. New strings a must thou..I do not know what they have on there, but I know I don't like them... Or maybe it is the call of the mod affecting me
They actually included a single 8 x 10 sheet of paper printed on both sides that comprises the owners manual. Between it and what I read here, piece of cake...
Now, to go and find the type of strings y'all said to get....
Cheers
Ok, maybe I am lucky some days... I just did the out of the box setup on a Paly VE-550 Sunburst model. It went very well and while I had to keep an eye on that bridge wanting to tilt forward and constantly checking it and correcting where necessary, it tuned up fairly well. Set the strings and tune held for about one song. I set the action closer to a jazz level since I cannot seem to find any reference of the level for Bluegrass.
After the second true up and set, it held tune for a while longer, 3 songs. So it seems like every other stringed angel when you put new strings on.. Other than that it's really nice.. New strings a must thou..I do not know what they have on there, but I know I don't like them... Or maybe it is the call of the mod affecting me
They actually included a single 8 x 10 sheet of paper printed on both sides that comprises the owners manual. Between it and what I read here, piece of cake...
Now, to go and find the type of strings y'all said to get....
Cheers
Howdy Y'all
Ok, maybe I am lucky some days... I just did the out of the box setup on a Paly VE-550 Sunburst model. It went very well and while I had to keep an eye on that bridge wanting to tilt forward and constantly checking it and correcting where necessary, it tuned up fairly well. Set the strings and tune held for about one song. I set the action closer to a jazz level since I cannot seem to find any reference of the level for Bluegrass.
After the second true up and set, it held tune for a while longer, 3 songs. So it seems like every other stringed angel when you put new strings on.. Other than that it's really nice.. New strings a must thou..I do not know what they have on there, but I know I don't like them... Or maybe it is the call of the mod affecting me
They actually included a single 8 x 10 sheet of paper printed on both sides that comprises the owners manual. Between it and what I read here, piece of cake...
Now, to go and find the type of strings y'all said to get....
Cheers
Hey there JamGoodBluegrass!
Seems like you and I are the only two current active owner's of this beast! Congrats on your purchase
Nice to know you had no issues with it out of the box.
I had a couple, but thankfully, sorted through them. The main issue for me was the sound. The A string was "thumpy/noisy" with a lot of finger noise. I ended up spinning the piezzo p'up 180degrees (putting the side that was under the treble foot of the bridge under the bass foot) and, for some mysterious reason, that worked. Now it sounds great.
Yes, the strings take a while to stretch out. Because of my A string problem I had spoken with the company I bought mine from (here in Europe the Palatino is marketed as the Harley Benton) about sending me one string, and they told me that the strings were just cheap, no-name brand strings from China. So that you don't have to read through ALL of the posts regarding strings, to the best of my knowledge, this is a list of most of the strings that everyone switched out to. D'addario is in bold because they seemed to be the most used and the one's I want to switch out to.
Best of luck! Keep us (me) updated.
D'Addario hybrid lights (don’t hear finger movement)
Pirastro Flexocor Stark
Corelli 370 TX
Helicore hybrid Mediums
Helicore Orchestral strings H610
Thomastik Spirocore
Hillbilly Slap Strings (HSS)
Yea, it's pretty obvious that the stock strings are nothing to write home about...Most times in bluegrass, we always use at least medium gauge on jes about every instrument.. So, I was looking @ D'Addario Bass Helicore Hybrid Medium 3/4, HH610-M as a replacement. Not sure if tape wound sets would resonate well?.. I play different instruments depending on the moment/day/gig/jam so I like a consistent feel on tensions and I have to watch that balance of not wearing my durn hands out too soon in an evening...
Oh, and btw, a number of Bluegrass band bass players in this region(Ne Texas) have Paly's. That's how I found out about them, I got to play one for about 3 hours one evening versus the Dawghaus bass. Loved that action and feel, and the sounds too.
Cheers!
Oh, and btw, a number of Bluegrass band bass players in this region(Ne Texas) have Paly's. That's how I found out about them, I got to play one for about 3 hours one evening versus the Dawghaus bass. Loved that action and feel, and the sounds too.
Cheers!
Sorry, I can't really say about the tape wounds. This is my first excursion into any type of UB.
Good to know that the Palatino has a following! Some folks assume, right off the bat, that they'll be
crappy due to the manufacture location and price. How wrong they are
Yeah, mine had an issue, but I sorted it out.
Have you read about the mod of putting some inner tube rubber underneath the p'up and also a piece under each foot
of the bridge? It mellows out the sound and makes it sound a lot more like an AUB.
Good to know that the Palatino has a following! Some folks assume, right off the bat, that they'll be
crappy due to the manufacture location and price. How wrong they are
Yeah, mine had an issue, but I sorted it out.
Have you read about the mod of putting some inner tube rubber underneath the p'up and also a piece under each foot
of the bridge? It mellows out the sound and makes it sound a lot more like an AUB.
For comparisons sake - I have had only ONE instrument that came out of the box needing no additional adjustment other than playin' it in.... That was my Martin HD28 guitar - My Deering Banjo, Wecther/Scheerhorn dobro, and mando, ALL had to go to see my Luthier to get straight, and ALL of them were made in the US!
