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Double Bass Palentino

#101
It's a rare Engelhardt that's going to perform well enough to give a Christopher a hard time. I recommend getting the 200 series for a couple hundred more than the 100 series. Here's what the 200 gives you. Pretttier laminates is the obvious part. And in the end that brings more joy than you might guess. But the real reason is not just skin deep. The spruce top laminates are not just the one you see, but all the way through! That means the bass is much lighter and more responsive than a maple (or whatever) topped bass, not to mention tone. This is the main reason why I choose this line as my entry level bass. The other stuff I like about the Christopher is available in other basses, though not all. Not, for instance, on most Engelhardt models. A good Ebony fingerboard, and properly made bridge w/adjusters, and Rubner tuners (on the ones I get, it's a $40 upgrade).

You already know why you should buy locally, so don't imagine I am trying to sell you one of mine, by the way. As it happens, I don't have one anyway! At the moment.

I was surprised at the quick degrade you experienced, it usually takes a year or more. Maybe yours had been in the shop for a while?
 
#102
Even if it was a small separation you did the right thing to take that Cremona back. Small separations grow. If it did that in 2 months, imagine what it would be in 6 with the same forces on the join and less join to resist separation.

I prefer the Kremona-Bulgaria basses over Christophers myself, but I've never heard a bad sounding Christopher. I just think the carved Kremonas are better built on the average and both are better sounding than the Engelhardts I've heard. Just my .02.
 
#103
Hi: I'm thankful that everyone was so helpful on this. Actually the luthier looked it over and said that this wasn't actually a separation but rather a finish line crack that was most likely caused by the endblock shrinking from an extremly dry environment. This sounds about right as my guitar is suffering from classic dry guitar at the moment. Anyway he said that he would watch it and if it required work he would do it. I trust this person. I'm probably being hyper-vigilant and worried about this thing coming apart but the guy told me that he wasn't going anywhere and in fact he has been in Portland for a long time and would take care of any issue that developed. That said it looks like I'm keeping it. It does have great tone (to my rookie ear) and a nice ebony fretboard. If this ends up being an ongoing saga then I keep all informed. When I get a chance I'll take a photo of what I was talking about. Best, Ed
 
#104
IMG_3126.jpg

I can't seem to get a great picture but on this one you can see the finish cracked under the tailpiece. We'll see. Believe me its a lot less stressful to watch this unfold as a bystander but it will be hopefully interesting for folks.
Regards, Ed
 
#105
I'm no luthier, but that looks pretty much like my bass did when it popped its top in the same place. I don't know what a "finish line crack" is, but the finish cracked for a reason; something is moving down there. It may not be as obvious in that particular place because the tailpiece wire is putting pressure on it. You might want to watch closely on either side of the tailpiece, to see if it spreads up the lower bout in either direction. Also, listen for any buzzes or rattles that may indicate a popped seam. You can check to see if it's opened by slipping a piece of paper along the seam; if it passes through, the seam is opened. It's a relatively easy fix for a bass luthier.
 
#106
I've seen (and repaired) a Cremona where the top plate separated from the end pin all the way up to the C-bout. Plus, it was starting to separate on the same side from the neck down to the C-bout. Not much structure left once the glue is gone! The guy who was slapping it just about literally slapped it to pieces... TiteBond and clamps got us out of that one and the bass is still in service some years later. A month or so after that happened, the other side started to let go in the same way.

I think that could very well happen to your Cremona.

Your Cremona? Didn't The Knack have a flash in the pan with that one?
 
#108
I'm not sure of the ideal humidity, but dry is bad. Don't leave it next to a heater in the winter. Spend $10 bucks or so & buy something called a dampit to use durring the winter. It fits in the F hole and keeps enough moisture in the bass durring the winter to keep low humidity due to dry heat from causing cracks. This is very important. If Your local music shop doesn't have them see if they will order you one. If not, there are many sources in TB land to order one from. Also, don't play it outside durring a thunderstorm-but You already know that.
 
#109
It is my opinion that while it may be good for developing the habit, there is no real reason to use a dampit in a plywood bass.

In my experience, there are better ways to handle humidity anyway. The Dampit must be serviced religeously to make much difference. Dipped twice a day, everyday. Three days w/o attention, and you have wasted all the time you did pay attention. I personally am not anal enough for it.

Better is a humidified space to keep the instrument in. Much less of a crap shoot. Where I live it doesn't matter as it is pretty stable, and even the spikes are mild. Move near here!
 
#111
"Finish line crack" = crack that is in the finish because of some movement. No separation that will take paper or even close to that yet. I'll keep an eye on it and send it in for some glue if it spreads. I have access to a ton of clamps from my dad's old boatshop but the guy that sold me this can do it for the first year or so. I keep the bass in the basement like Nick and the only heat here is the steam pipes running through the room but I keep the instruments well away from those. I'm about a five minute walk from the ocean and we go through some radical humidity changes here. In the summer when the fog rolls in we are pretty much in it and the doors all swell up. In the summer I have to run a dehumidifier down here or things start to mold. I know its winter when I start getting nosebleeds from the dry air. Nick, how tight do the joints look on that Palatino? Ed
 
#112
I had a student who's well meaning parents bought her a Palentino. An utter disaster. Having no sound quality may have been the least of its problem. The plates around the tuners started pulling away almost immediatly. Pitch retrention could almost be timed. Maybe 40% of bridge feet made contact with the body (the store replaced it once with one even worse that almost immediatly began warping). But it was cheap. Oh yeah, the case zipper broke right away and the student got discouraged and quit.
 
#114
Apart from the grotesquely crooked endpin:
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and this little ding:
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:eyebrow:
my bass is holding up nicely after a year.:hyper:

I also just got a look at the Christopher basses online (Link Removed) and I can conclude that, despite my previous distaste for violin corners, these are quite beautiful instruments and I wouldn't mind owning one:D. I'd go for the 300 series or 400 series. But what I really want is a Quintus carbon fiber DB. They've got a really nice gamba shape. I haven't tried one out yet, but I'm a couple of hours away from a dealer, so I'll be fine. I also want an Azola Acoustic Bugbass. But that's gong to have to wait (less time than the Quintus, though) due to the cost.:bawl:
 
#116
Oh, and did you know the back and sides on my bass are flame maple? Didn't notice, I know.:hmm: that's one of my criticisms. It's not very figured for "flame maple." The back is better, but it's still not like some that I've seen. Oh well, I've heard curly maple is a pain in the butt to work with.
 
#117
You'll never believe what just happened to my Palatino.:eyebrow: I broke the D string:bawl: while trying to tune it to the proper pitch (it was flat.):eek: That's the last time I'm keeping stock strings on for a year.:rolleyes: The bad thing is that I can't afford new strings right now, not even a replacement D string.:help:And I've got a rehearsal tonight. Oh well, I'll take my mom's place on the bass clarinet. Wish me luck.
 
#118
Here's what happened:

First student - neck seperated within 2 months of purchase. Repair shop had to screw the neck in. The endpin eventually came out (it started bending, then the wood eventually cracked around it). Bass was junked, student quit playing bass.

Second student - Fingeboard fell off. Put back on, but the neck started bowing, action became worse over time, was in the shop at least three times for set up. Student then bought a used bass, junked the Palentino.

Third student - top caved in about 8 months after purchase. I didn't see it, but the student told me it was pretty ugly, that it looked like someone took a sledge hammer to it. Student quit, parents didn't want to sink any more money into it.

Fourth student - I really advised against this, but the parents saved a little cash buying the bass. Action was horrible, and for some reason the bass smelled (kind of like a sickenly sweet varnish smell). One day the bottom of the bass (at the end pin) literally exploded at some point overnight. The bass looked like someone had tossed an M-80 at the bottom of it. The student ended up buying another bass.

The basses went for around $700 each new from the store, plus set up, accessories, etc. For 4 students, the total wasted was at least $2,800, plus 2 students quit playing.

As always, YMMV ...
 
#120
I don't mind the Christopher strings. They are good enough that the basses sell on tonal comparison. I rarely get a bad string, though it has happened, and I have had a number of customers come back for another set after a couple of years. I always have extra sets around as I change about a third of them to more serious strings as they go out the door. I think they are roughly equivelent to Weichs. Orchestras are much more powerful, but that is to be expected. D'A hybrids are noticebly better, but only just. All opinion, of course.

Years ago I bought a few basses for a guy named Povolny' in the Czech Republic, and his strings were far worse than the Palentino, and that is saying something.
 

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