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Paring Cabs
- Thread starter grass132456
- Start date
How about two 4x10's from the same manufacturer with everything being equal accept for ohms. One 4x10 at 4 ohms and the other at 8 ohms, one cabinet will be receiving 2x the watts.
Of course two 8 ohm or two 4 ohm cabinets would be a better choice but what if you did not want to spend the extra $'s and wanted to keep one cabinet and just buy another to drive your amp at 2.67ohms ?
Of course two 8 ohm or two 4 ohm cabinets would be a better choice but what if you did not want to spend the extra $'s and wanted to keep one cabinet and just buy another to drive your amp at 2.67ohms ?
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
- 278
- 76
- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
I can't say if the designers of those boxes knew what they were doing or not. But they wouldn't be isolated examples of speakers tossed together because they looked good, with no regard to any acoustical engineering concerns, simply because the designers had no acoustical engineering knowledge. Neither Leo Fender nor Jim Marshall knew anything about how speakers worked, and as their designs were those that created the mold it's no surprise that those who followed their lead amounted to a parade of the blind following the blind.
(sorry for this "coda": I promised to stop bothering!)
to Bill: well, at least now this is a real and constructive answer! Thanks for sharing your... say, "strong" but absolutely respectable point of view, Bill. The fact that we don't actually know how did they actually design their cabs does not necessarily mean that they develop products as... "wizards", following Leo and Jim primitive ideas, just mixing a bit of this and a bit of that, hoping that something good comes out of the cocktail!!!
If anything, it would be a sure commercial suicide and in addition an "image disaster". Remember anyway that we are talking about relatively "big" names, not about... my own rudimental attempts to build a cab with summary knowledge!!!! I would tend to think instead that they made the due amount of design calculations, trials & errors and model speakers, judging in the end having both graphs and ears (the most important factor of the equation, mvho). But as you say: we don't know.
to esa372: well, marketing something that will not work does not make much sense. AFAIK Schroeder, Frudua, Trace Elliot are among the most respected builders. In the end, what I want to say is: if I was to select a second added cab for my rig, I would most probably go for the exact twin myself; but this is not necessarily written in the stone nor illegal or "malicious" (??? what, where, when??? what does it mean???).
to Bill: well, at least now this is a real and constructive answer! Thanks for sharing your... say, "strong" but absolutely respectable point of view, Bill. The fact that we don't actually know how did they actually design their cabs does not necessarily mean that they develop products as... "wizards", following Leo and Jim primitive ideas, just mixing a bit of this and a bit of that, hoping that something good comes out of the cocktail!!!
If anything, it would be a sure commercial suicide and in addition an "image disaster". Remember anyway that we are talking about relatively "big" names, not about... my own rudimental attempts to build a cab with summary knowledge!!!! I would tend to think instead that they made the due amount of design calculations, trials & errors and model speakers, judging in the end having both graphs and ears (the most important factor of the equation, mvho). But as you say: we don't know.
to esa372: well, marketing something that will not work does not make much sense. AFAIK Schroeder, Frudua, Trace Elliot are among the most respected builders. In the end, what I want to say is: if I was to select a second added cab for my rig, I would most probably go for the exact twin myself; but this is not necessarily written in the stone nor illegal or "malicious" (??? what, where, when??? what does it mean???).
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
- 278
- 76
- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
Fender and Marshall put drivers side by side because it looked better that way, and they also didn't know that they shouldn't have. Since they set the standard they could have done vertical drivers and that would have become the standard. But they didn't. Most of the rest of the industry fell in line and remain there to this day.
If you go back to the 60s there were examples of bass speakers that were very well engineered, from JBL and EV to name just two. They failed in the marketplace, partly because they didn't 'look right', partly because they didn't make amps. Fender and Marshall did, and rigs tended not to be sold as separates.
Thank goodness, the best old speakers were built by ear and not with software otherwise they may have never been built. And anyone who thinks pro audio reinforcement speaker designers don’t know what they are doing is nuts. And if Leo Fender spent as much time on TB as some here do in hopes of attracting potential customers he may of never built anything.
Good point. Now, how many pro audio speakers can you find with mixed size full range drivers, or side by side or "four in a square" configurations?
That's pro audio, mind you... not MI cabs.
Marketing... often a mishmash of incompetence AND malice, accompanied by willful ignorance of engineering. (Even one's own engineering, and even when it is sound.)
What were some of those JBL bass speakers from the '60's ? I was just starting out then, and the only JBL stuff I ever saw were drivers in other brand name boxes, like Kustom, or Fender.
In those days JBL systems were so expensive few dealers were able to carry them. They also didn't move well as the average musician simply couldn't afford them. There was a time when all my drivers were made by JBL. I still own four but use speaker systems loaded with Eminence drivers.
If the drivers/cabinets are matched tone wise and are operating within their range (watts) the two should add up nicely ?
The simple fact that one cabinet will be drawing twice the power of the other is not such a good idea. If you mated an 8Ω 2x10 with a 4Ω 4x10 you have a good match as all the drivers will receive around the same amount of power. The caveat is that the amplifiers will need to be stable at 2Ω.
Just dropping the impedance to 2.67Ω from 4Ω will garner a comparatively minuscule volume increase.
No worries about the amp, it can handle 2.67. I have thought about going 8Ω 2x10 with a 4Ω 4x10 as I already have the 4x10, that was until someone told me adding an 8Ω 4x10 would be better because :
1) More cost effective, you can keep using the 4Ω.
2) It will be louder (810).
3) You will not notice any difference with the 4x10 putting out different amount of power.
I easily agree with points 1 & 2. Point 3 has me somewhat concerned but as this advice came from someone who's I highly trust & respect in the world of bass it has me scratching my head.
1) More cost effective, you can keep using the 4Ω.
2) It will be louder (810).
3) You will not notice any difference with the 4x10 putting out different amount of power.
I easily agree with points 1 & 2. Point 3 has me somewhat concerned but as this advice came from someone who's I highly trust & respect in the world of bass it has me scratching my head.
It will be an 8x10 but a very unbalanced one. Your point 3 is in some ways correct. Adding speakers will get you more volume than increasing power. If you add sufficient power to take the drivers past their excursion limits, at that point no matter how much more power you add the cabinet will get no louder. Your drivers at this stage are toast.
To whom do you refer with this snide comment? I can only assume it's Bill, who has never, to my knowledge, referred to his own designs in general conversation on this forum except when asked a direct question about them. He offers his general observations and advice, for you to take or leave as you see fit.
Capitalism and marketing are the enemies, matching cabs are your friends. I'll listen to Bill and get it right the first time, so I can concentrate more on making art
I've heard shows in the old days with the horitontal arrays, and I've heard shows now with the vertical line arrays, and concert sound is a million times better now.
