i think the recommendation of pairing matching cabs is that the results are predictable as opposed to pairing non matching cabs results being unpredictable, yes mixing cab types can work well for the user, but if you like the sound a particular single cab it is safe to predict that you will like the sound of 2 of them more.
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Paring Cabs
- Thread starter grass132456
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billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
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- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
That's exactly what's being said, no more, no less. Too bad that the thread is filled with long diatribes by those who have agendas totally devoted to ignoring what's said by anyone but themselves.
I bought a Markbass CMD 121H combo in '08, thinking it would be the end-all for me. But, no. Earlier this year I decided I wanted to go with dual 115s instead, with a separate Little Mark III head. To begin the change I first bought a Markbass Traveler 151P cab and used it with the 121H combo as an extension. I knew it was a mismatch, but that was ok for now since I know I will eventually get another 151P cab and separate head (actually, I already have gotten the head now). Anyway, it was interesting to hear what the rig was like using the 12 and 15 together with the LMII head that is in the combo. Oh yes, it sounded great, much better than the 12 alone, I mean, a whopping much better. But, I knew that I was limited by what the 12 can handle, so I was never getting the best use of the 15. And, adding another matching 151P cab will no doubt sound better.
My point is, adding any extension cab will give you a better sound. But, after listening to those in the know on here, I am convinced that when I get another matching 151P cab it will sound even better, and will be the best I can do. I thank those who know the science better than me for their input on the subject. I'd have never known if I hadn't been on this forum.
My point is, adding any extension cab will give you a better sound. But, after listening to those in the know on here, I am convinced that when I get another matching 151P cab it will sound even better, and will be the best I can do. I thank those who know the science better than me for their input on the subject. I'd have never known if I hadn't been on this forum.
+1, exactly the same for me, i'm sure you will like the sound of 2 x151P cabs, (assuming you like the sound of 1)
- Apr 3, 2003
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Well, in the music world, predictable usually equals boring.
And I don't have an "agenda" other than "people should try out as many of the available options they can and decide what works best for them by HOW IT SOUNDS".
I really don't understand why some people here are so adamant about avoiding mixing cabs.
State the science, say "it could cause effects that you may or may not like" and leave it at that. The doomsday chorus that ALWAYS happens in threads like these gets REALLY obnoxious.
And I don't have an "agenda" other than "people should try out as many of the available options they can and decide what works best for them by HOW IT SOUNDS".
I really don't understand why some people here are so adamant about avoiding mixing cabs.
State the science, say "it could cause effects that you may or may not like" and leave it at that. The doomsday chorus that ALWAYS happens in threads like these gets REALLY obnoxious.
we are not talking about boredom or excitement, we are talking about pairing cabs, whether a cab sounds good or bad does not to equate to boredom or excitement.
2 good sounding identical cabs WILL sound better together, simple as, a predictable outcome, IT WILL WORK!
none matching cabs - try it n see, but no guarentees
what is obnoxious is when some1 comes on here and tries to discount the science, thats tried and tested, researched and studied, RESPECT to those share their knowledge and understanding, and thankyou.
off topic - when i was a teenager i went thro the "know it all" phase, until a wise man said to me,
sorry: this is not science. It is just listening with your ears and deciding what is better for "you". That not necessarily is what is better for "me". RESPECT is due to everyone and (my opinion) also to those that do not agree with a purely scientific approach to a non-scientific matter: listening and playing music has not much to do with science. Leo Fender invented the solid body to defeat the feedback. Then Hendrix came.
It is annoying also when somebody stands up on a soapbox and says: "I am right (I have the graphs!) so you are wrong. Period." If we were talking about me having some surgery, I would not say one single word but just trust completely on the best surgeon I could find; same thing for designing a house or... a submarine etc. But for "artistic stuff" science is surely good thing, but until a certain extent. MVHO and respect to everybody.
Look below: those guys made design, trials and errors then decided, about certain cabs, for a not too "scientific" approach, as for coupling speakers:
Frudua 1012
Trace / Schroeder 2x10 + 1x15 (12) (frankly I don't know if there is a crossover involved, here below)
I might be wrong, as usual (ask to my wife!)
Aw, we aren't talking about the "art" here, but just the mechanics of sound. Analyzing sound is science, making music is art. I trust the guys who know more science than I do because it makes sense to, to me anyway. That way I think I have a better chance of not wasting my money on my next purchase.
But hey, there's no need for arguing about any of it. Whatever anyone likes is ok. Me, I'm just trying to make a decision based on some information.
But hey, there's no need for arguing about any of it. Whatever anyone likes is ok. Me, I'm just trying to make a decision based on some information.
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
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- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
In this case it's closer to Clarke's observation that 'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic', though Asimov's thought that Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' also applies.
What "intellectualism" has to do with selecting a pair of cabs? "Ignorance" is one thing; "not agreeing" or "not caring much" about the absolutely negligible "phasing issues" or the "politically correct pairing cab policy" is another.
And, again, selecting a pair of cabs is done with the ears, not with a spectrum analyzer. A man should be entitled to do that without being treated with sarcasm, as a second class, ignorant human being. Mvho.
Now THIS is a correct approach (and a lesson about "style", I would say). Again: MVHO.
If no one really cares about what other people like or you don’t have some agenda - why is this thread 5 pages long, instead of just posting your opinion or facts once with maybe a follow-up or two - then let everyone else post their opinions. I’m just saying -
My main objection to the 4x10 plus 1x15 pairing is less acoustical and more electrical. A regular single 15 will never be able to keep up with four tens in any way. It will always be a weak link in the system. So many folk have blown their 15s because of this fact.
Nobody is saying that dissimilar cabinets won't work, just that finding a pair that will is a time consuming exercise not to mention an expensive one. Most of us start out with used equipment and we're limited to what's available. We slap systems together from that. What is being said is that if you have a choice, following a few simple rules will be the best option to get good sound.
Nobody is saying that dissimilar cabinets won't work, just that finding a pair that will is a time consuming exercise not to mention an expensive one. Most of us start out with used equipment and we're limited to what's available. We slap systems together from that. What is being said is that if you have a choice, following a few simple rules will be the best option to get good sound.
Amen brother BPaul. And, why get your panties in a wad over the fact that matched cabs outperform mixed cabs? If you like it, that's fine, but that fact does in no way make for a better pair of bass cabs.
To the OP:
Matched cabs = very strong odds in favor of success.
Mismatched cabs = roll the dice.
Live sound has enough variables to worry about, no sense in throwing more variables into the mix. IME, IMO, YMMV of course.
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To the rest on this thread:
The OP's question was for advice regarding the pro's and cons of matched vs mismatched cabinet pairs. The advice by many to go with matched cabinets for more predictable results is based not just on anecdotal evidence, but acoustical physics.
The arguments against matched cabs seem to lack both evidence and science. As such it is weak advice and doesn't enhance the discussion.
Suggesting the OP shouldn't listen to a qualified expert's advice with no constructive counter argument not only does the OP a disservice, it is just downright rude.
I'm not arguing for consensus, i'm just arguing for good arguments.
Matched cabs = very strong odds in favor of success.
Mismatched cabs = roll the dice.
Live sound has enough variables to worry about, no sense in throwing more variables into the mix. IME, IMO, YMMV of course.
--------
To the rest on this thread:
The OP's question was for advice regarding the pro's and cons of matched vs mismatched cabinet pairs. The advice by many to go with matched cabinets for more predictable results is based not just on anecdotal evidence, but acoustical physics.
The arguments against matched cabs seem to lack both evidence and science. As such it is weak advice and doesn't enhance the discussion.
Suggesting the OP shouldn't listen to a qualified expert's advice with no constructive counter argument not only does the OP a disservice, it is just downright rude.
I'm not arguing for consensus, i'm just arguing for good arguments.
Who said "don't listen to the experts"? If you ask me, personally I would say "always listen to the experts first", but in the end try cabs and cabs (if you can) and only trust your ears. Maybe 80% you'll end up with a pair of matching cab. Or not: highly personal.
I did not see anything actually "against" matching cabs in the thread: I read instead about the concrete and recurring (proven by the owners' ears) possibility to find an added companion (different) cab to the one that you already have that will play good anyway.
In my previous entry I was just daring to say that one is fully entitled to actually agree or not with the "correct matching cab policy": in the last case he should not be considered with sarcasm. This is something rude. This is my own, only neglectable advise.
Correct and fair approach to the discussion. But when lots of people say "I have a pair of non matching cabs and I am perfectly satisfied" what do you want more? Graphs and "bench tests" would indicate matching cabs. Ears sometimes (repeat: sometimes) might point to different choices. This is the life on the planet
i'm more put in mind of the reverse concept, "any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."
Just asking, then I will stop for good, because it is about time for me: why one that simply does not agree with the "matching" trend must be considered "advanced incompetent" and user of some "malice"?
P.S.: Did Schroeder, Frudua, Trace and others that mix different woofers in the same cab use more "advanced incompetence" or rather more "malice"? Anybody willing to seriously answer to this? So, as promised I will stop now.
