LOL. I 'm not the one squawking! What do I care what you do? I'm just showing how all the complaints are going to lose business. Have fun sitting at home while others get the gigs.
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"Party" gig is actually a wedding
- Thread starter Jim Nazium
- Start date
LOL. I 'm not the one squawking! What do I care what you do? I'm just showing how all the complaints are going to lose business. Have fun sitting at home while others get the gigs.
I have enough gigs not to worry about losing a poorly paying one. Perhaps you're in a different situation where you have no problem with people low-balling the service you provide just to get the work. We don't have enough detail to know whether this is a bad gig or not. The wedding party might be looking for no more than a dance band to play for a couple of hours. In any case, that's what they'd get from me ... if I agreed to the gig at all. Wanna drop by and dig me post hole?
And I agree (took it for granted, actually) that there would be conversation among the band members and with the booking party before the event. I can't imagine not doing so, especially since the wedding part was a complete surprise. It's kinda sad that most threads in Band Management can be answered with a simple "Talk to each other" recommendation. It shouldn't have to be said!
Some really strange posts in this thread.
When you book a gig, surely you discuss in advance exactly what services the band is providing. You get it agreed in advance, in writing. This way the band knows what they're doing and the client knows what they're getting. You agree a contract for precise services so that everyone is happy.
The idea that you just book a private party without discussing exactly what the client wants on the night (regardless of whether it's a party, a wedding, whatever) just seems totally alien.
If the client wants the full wedding experience, arrange it in advance. If they want a simple arrangement, arrange it in advance. Nobody should be surprised on the day.
When you book a gig, surely you discuss in advance exactly what services the band is providing. You get it agreed in advance, in writing. This way the band knows what they're doing and the client knows what they're getting. You agree a contract for precise services so that everyone is happy.
The idea that you just book a private party without discussing exactly what the client wants on the night (regardless of whether it's a party, a wedding, whatever) just seems totally alien.
If the client wants the full wedding experience, arrange it in advance. If they want a simple arrangement, arrange it in advance. Nobody should be surprised on the day.
In my experience, a wedding gig takes up a lot more time and prep than a bar gig - like at least twice. Since they are pulling a fast one on your band by paying bar band rates, then that is what you give them. Just go do your bar band set, dress like you do for a bar, no "special" dance, announcements, song requests, play 45 minutes on 15 off, if that is the way your local bars do sets, for the standard length - around here, a gig is 3 hours. Use the standard set up time / tear down time allotments, just like you do at a bar - that is, set up right before you play. My band takes about an hour to set up and one to tear down - IOW minimize your time at the venue. Every wedding I have played has taken up about half a day for set up and tear down - set up way before the wedding party comes in, then numerous announcements, stops, starts, like stop for food and toasts, that turn a 3 hour gig into 4 or 5, not counting gear wrangling. I am sure that the wedding people will squawk, but they need to be told that they are getting what they paid for. I've done numerous gigs where they people you play for start to take advantage of the band, and it's no fun to have to draw a line, because they will get offended if you don't give in. There's no happy way out of this, sorry.
PS - and get it in writing next time.....
PS - and get it in writing next time.....
Exactly!
It's about setting expectations. My band has been asked to to the sort of gigs we simply don't do. MC duties, no. We manage to talk to the audience a bit at festival and bar gigs, but we are not that good at it. That's why I ask what the requirements are. "What are you looking for?"
When we booked a DJ for my daughter's Bat Mitzvah, the guy came over and had a meeting with us. We went over the event end to end. This conversation was led by HIM. He knew the questions to ask, things we had not even though of or considered. He is the service provider.
Forget the compensation for a moment, if for no other reason than not wanting to embarrass myself I would want to find out what I was getting into.
If the OP gig has no additional requirements than a typical party (however that is defined), the price should be that of a typical party. Period. If there are additional requirements, there should be additional compensation. I don't know how you establish that without a detailed conversation.
If that conversation did happen, and the requirements are within that band's guidelines for what the agreed compensation is, then I m not sure why this is even a thread.
This thread has certainly been entertaining.
Let me just fill in a few more details. We've already discussed with the client what time we need to arrive, what we'll be wearing, what songs we're going to play, what time we'll stop playing, and how much equipment we need to bring. As of right now, none of that has changed, and none of us in the band feel like we're getting a raw deal. We negotiated the pay based on the above factors, and we're happy with it.
It's possible that once we arrive, they'll ask us to do a bunch more stuff, like act as MCs / DJs / assistant wedding coordinators. If they do that, we can accept, decline, or ask for more money, depending on the request. But why would they do that? If you were spending a bunch of time and money to plan this "special day", wouldn't you make sure that everyone knows what is expected of them? Why risk being disappointed?
And if they aren't going to do anything sneaky like that, then why 'forget' to mention that it's a wedding? I guess it would have put us in a stronger negotiating position at the outset, but it just seems silly to me that we couldn't still have arrived at the same price once we knew exactly what we were being asked to do.
Anyway, I'll post an update on Sunday after the gig.
Let me just fill in a few more details. We've already discussed with the client what time we need to arrive, what we'll be wearing, what songs we're going to play, what time we'll stop playing, and how much equipment we need to bring. As of right now, none of that has changed, and none of us in the band feel like we're getting a raw deal. We negotiated the pay based on the above factors, and we're happy with it.
It's possible that once we arrive, they'll ask us to do a bunch more stuff, like act as MCs / DJs / assistant wedding coordinators. If they do that, we can accept, decline, or ask for more money, depending on the request. But why would they do that? If you were spending a bunch of time and money to plan this "special day", wouldn't you make sure that everyone knows what is expected of them? Why risk being disappointed?
And if they aren't going to do anything sneaky like that, then why 'forget' to mention that it's a wedding? I guess it would have put us in a stronger negotiating position at the outset, but it just seems silly to me that we couldn't still have arrived at the same price once we knew exactly what we were being asked to do.
Anyway, I'll post an update on Sunday after the gig.
OP, you should print out this thread and give it to them for a wedding gift.
OK, well, just take #1.
How are we going to take requests? We only play songs we have rehearsed the heck out of, so we can play them well. We don't "fake it," and we're not the level of musicians who can just pull stuff out of our butts. You want to pay me to murder "At Last?" Fine.
I will go to my grave never having played a song for the father of the bride to dance with his little girl to. It's a goal of mine. We have to have goals.
The only requests I take are for songs we know. Most bands butcher songs when they try to play them on the fly, they just don't know how bad they sound.
If everything was discussed, and agreed for a price, then who the hell cares that it is a wedding, an anniversary, birthday, Cinco de Mayo....whatever. What difference, at this point, does it make?
Hopkins
Commercial User
Absolutely, playing in a suit and tie for 4 hours is uncomfortable. I wear fire resistant clothing at work, I own one suit that has been worn one time. Although that isn't the only difference between a wedding and party gig.
jive1
Commercial User
I've done weddings where all we had to do was show up an hour beforehand and play, just like any bar gig except we got paid more. I've done corporate events where we had to show up hours early, and sit through speeches just like a wedding reception. I've done weddings where the band could play in business casual, and private parties that wanted us to wear suit and tie. It's not uncommon for someone to request a song or 2 for a corporate event or private party because it fits the theme/VIP's favorite song/etc.
It all depends. There's many different types of events, and styles within each type of event. People want different things, and that's why it's good to be flexible. We don't charge more for a wedding. When working with a client, I tell them it comes down to time and materials for the cost of the band. The more time we need to spend, the more material we need to bring, the more money it costs. Doesn't matter if it's a wedding, corporate rally, bar mitzvah, birthday party, retirement party, barn dance, etc.. It still comes down to time and materials, and that's what I price it on. There's a wide range of tastes and needs that need to get spelled out before the price is finalized regardless of the type of event. A wedding that wants a Jazz trio with just one speaker on a stick is going to cost less than a convention gig where you bring a 9 piece band with horns and contract out concert level sound. The type of event doesn't matter. It's the time and materials that do.
I've said this many times, but when these types of events are being done, a contract (preferably with a deposit) is very handy. If not for the legal, but to spell things out for both parties.
It all depends. There's many different types of events, and styles within each type of event. People want different things, and that's why it's good to be flexible. We don't charge more for a wedding. When working with a client, I tell them it comes down to time and materials for the cost of the band. The more time we need to spend, the more material we need to bring, the more money it costs. Doesn't matter if it's a wedding, corporate rally, bar mitzvah, birthday party, retirement party, barn dance, etc.. It still comes down to time and materials, and that's what I price it on. There's a wide range of tastes and needs that need to get spelled out before the price is finalized regardless of the type of event. A wedding that wants a Jazz trio with just one speaker on a stick is going to cost less than a convention gig where you bring a 9 piece band with horns and contract out concert level sound. The type of event doesn't matter. It's the time and materials that do.
I've said this many times, but when these types of events are being done, a contract (preferably with a deposit) is very handy. If not for the legal, but to spell things out for both parties.
If you find a suit & tie uncomfortable, maybe you should look at getting a better fitting suit? There's no reason the customer should have to spend more just because you need to look fancy and don't like it.
As for the difference between a party and a wedding, no there's not that big of a difference. If there is, your party shows must be pretty sub-par. My band's done many weddings & parties, and we don't change anything except our look. Well, there are a couple non-PG songs that get dropped, but that's it. And we get high praise from the weddings we play.
Put out a tip jar, and mention it a lot, but very genially.
Honestly, I would feel like I'd been kneecappped if a client withheld such a vital detail from me. It's an extremely crass way of economizing.
Have fun, put on a great show, drink heavily, and tout the tip jar. If they didn't hire a wedding band, the presumption has to be they don't expect you to conduct business like one.
Give them the feeling that ANYTHING could happen. It's only rock 'n roll.
And demand your money up front.
Honestly, I would feel like I'd been kneecappped if a client withheld such a vital detail from me. It's an extremely crass way of economizing.
Have fun, put on a great show, drink heavily, and tout the tip jar. If they didn't hire a wedding band, the presumption has to be they don't expect you to conduct business like one.
Give them the feeling that ANYTHING could happen. It's only rock 'n roll.
And demand your money up front.
No more tacky than telling the band it's a party instead of a wedding.
You mentioned that they're in their 60s or 70s. I know that some folks that old just don't think getting married is a big deal, especially if they've been married before. It might be the case that they really do think of this event as merely a party -- everyone doesn't look at this sort of thing the same way. In any case, good luck. Curious to hear how it turns out.
jive1
Commercial User
Sounds like there's a good chance they are just having an informal party to celebrate their wedding.
When booking a wedding, I always ask the client what elements of a wedding they plan to have (father/bride dance ,dollar dance, cutting cake, speeches, garter/bouquet toss, etc.) to clear those things up. If they say they are planning to have just a party, I think it's safe to assume that there will be no elements of a wedding. It would be really tacky for them to come up with those elements when the band arrives, and I would balk at that. Not because I'm being difficult, because I want to be prepared and do the job well.
If they ask to introduce the bridal party:
Sorry, I didn't know we were going to do that. Typically I would ask beforehand, so we could do intro music and get the pronunciation of people's names down. But, here's a mic if someone else would like to do it, the band will be taking a break.
If they ask for a request for a dance, etc.:
Sorry, we don't know that one. I wish you told us so we could prepare. If you have it on your phone, we can run it through the PA during break. Oops, sorry forgot to bring the right cable. I usually only bring those for our wedding gigs.
If they want music during the garter toss/bouquet toss/cutting cake/breaking glass:
Sorry, we didn't prepare for that. We had known, we would have learned a song or at least brought background music.
If they want speeches:
Here's the mic. We're going to be taking a break, just holler if you need anything. We'll be out back having dinner on the loading dock. Take your time.
If they want you to show up early for set up:
Sorry, I didn't know that you wanted that. The guys have other commitments during the day. Typically the guys will keep the day free if it's a wedding, but we didn't know so they planned other things. We may need to hire a sound man to get set up earlier, and it will cost $400.
If they think you are being difficult:
Sorry, we like to come in prepared and we didn't know this was going to be a wedding that had all this or we would have prepared otherwise. But, we'll do the best we can with what we expected this to be: playing for a private party.
To be fair, as the wedding band, you should be the one who knows all this. As I have told many brides, "Ideally, this is your first and only wedding. It's natural for you to have questions, concerns, and missing details because you haven't done this before. For us, it's our 1000th, so we'd be glad to help out with the details whether or not it's music related"
As a groom, I'll tell you that once you mention "wedding", demons, harpies, and succubi come crawling out of the woodwork and swooping down from the sky to make a grab at your money. I joked with my wife that I was going to buy a Walmart, spray paint everything pastel and make it into a bridal store where I can charge 400% above regular price. So, I'm not surprised that someone might take that angle. If the client feels that you will make the day special, care for their needs more than their money, you'll be doing better than lots of vendors out there. But in the end, you will get what you pay for.
When booking a wedding, I always ask the client what elements of a wedding they plan to have (father/bride dance ,dollar dance, cutting cake, speeches, garter/bouquet toss, etc.) to clear those things up. If they say they are planning to have just a party, I think it's safe to assume that there will be no elements of a wedding. It would be really tacky for them to come up with those elements when the band arrives, and I would balk at that. Not because I'm being difficult, because I want to be prepared and do the job well.
If they ask to introduce the bridal party:
Sorry, I didn't know we were going to do that. Typically I would ask beforehand, so we could do intro music and get the pronunciation of people's names down. But, here's a mic if someone else would like to do it, the band will be taking a break.
If they ask for a request for a dance, etc.:
Sorry, we don't know that one. I wish you told us so we could prepare. If you have it on your phone, we can run it through the PA during break. Oops, sorry forgot to bring the right cable. I usually only bring those for our wedding gigs.
If they want music during the garter toss/bouquet toss/cutting cake/breaking glass:
Sorry, we didn't prepare for that. We had known, we would have learned a song or at least brought background music.
If they want speeches:
Here's the mic. We're going to be taking a break, just holler if you need anything. We'll be out back having dinner on the loading dock. Take your time.
If they want you to show up early for set up:
Sorry, I didn't know that you wanted that. The guys have other commitments during the day. Typically the guys will keep the day free if it's a wedding, but we didn't know so they planned other things. We may need to hire a sound man to get set up earlier, and it will cost $400.
If they think you are being difficult:
Sorry, we like to come in prepared and we didn't know this was going to be a wedding that had all this or we would have prepared otherwise. But, we'll do the best we can with what we expected this to be: playing for a private party.
To be fair, as the wedding band, you should be the one who knows all this. As I have told many brides, "Ideally, this is your first and only wedding. It's natural for you to have questions, concerns, and missing details because you haven't done this before. For us, it's our 1000th, so we'd be glad to help out with the details whether or not it's music related"
As a groom, I'll tell you that once you mention "wedding", demons, harpies, and succubi come crawling out of the woodwork and swooping down from the sky to make a grab at your money. I joked with my wife that I was going to buy a Walmart, spray paint everything pastel and make it into a bridal store where I can charge 400% above regular price. So, I'm not surprised that someone might take that angle. If the client feels that you will make the day special, care for their needs more than their money, you'll be doing better than lots of vendors out there. But in the end, you will get what you pay for.
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That is how you get more work, folks. Whether or not you were misled, be professional but talk with them in private about their ethics (and don't ever play extras for free!).
