Pedal candyland overdose

[Laurent]

I just looked at this week's Tone Report and new pedals are reviewed!

These are guitar pedals but it seems like there is a new pedal builder and a new pedal everyday.
The old days of the pedal ménage a trois with Boss, MXR and Electro-Harmonix are long gone.

I also suspect that the competition to reach consumers and sell a pedal or too must be incredibly fierce.
There is so much supply and so little access to the market. The average Guitar Center might have 75 to 100 pedals on their floor but it's nothing compared to the thousands of pedals available!

Overall bass players have benefited from this since we were pretty much ignore as a segment market until ten years ago or so. It's nice to have so many options but it can be overwhelming.

Having burnt through 200+ pedals, I have engaged in stompbox exploration with more intensity than most people. I have currently 20 pedals or so from a high of 45. I now know what I like and what works for me.

Despite all the options, I see a lack of creativity from builders. Everybody is doing the same 7 pedals with minor tweaks. Instead of churning me-too products, I would like to see true innovations. I am also appalled by the high prices. $225 for pedal?! Who are they kidding.

I might be testing a couple of pedals in the next year but I think I've reached the overdose point.

Do you feel the same and what are your thoughts on the current state of the pedal biz?

 

[JonnyAngle]

In regards to Muffs and Rats... I like the added mids knob that Fuzzrocious adds. I prefer this over the clean blend that Wren and Cuff offers in their muff clone. I'm sure I could find another to replace my Grey Stache, but it works for me so I have no desire to try any different Muffs. Since I love my GS, I decided that I'd like to try a Rat. I like the etched form factor that Fuzzrocious offers, so I bought the rat tail in the same sized etched enclosure. It all depends to what level of insanity you can handle.

 

[itchyfingers]

I see what you mean about the same type of pedals coming in so many flavors, but I think its kinda cool to have so many options.

I dunno, $225 doesnt seem that extreme to me, especially when you look at what Klons and DAM's go for used, not to mention amps - whew! I just dropped $500 on an old pedal and it didn't seem that crazy to me, but its definitely one I've been GASing on hard for several years, so maybe the satisfaction of finally obtaining it outweighs the price for me.

I think the innovation is out there if you know where to look. Some of the digital products that are being released are sounding pretty awesome, considering how sterile and ice-picky they were just a few short years ago. People are raving about the Eventide H9 - pretty much all the factor pedals in one decent sized stompbox. I have been really impressed by the dirt options in the Digitech iStomp, as well as the mod and time e-pedals they offer (for free now).

FWIW, I play everything from Boss, MXR, Digitech, EH to super small builders' one off booteeks.

 

[Daniel Piper]

I dunno... I like buying your pedals once you've burned through em...

 

[Feral Feline]

Innovation, there is some, mostly in the way of added features.
Same old effects, but with added features – Empress and Strymon, Dr Scientist. Or Zoom/Korg/etc just chucking in all sorts of stuff into one pedal.

Lots of "Me Too" stuff from Mooer, but it's in a tiny box.

Same ol'
Different price points, different sizes, different feature sets, different tones...
No wood is the same, just as no player is the same... so while one pedal may fit perfectly into someone's setup, it won't work for another's signal chain.

It's a good time to be into pedals, though it is a bit of overload with what's available. Taking my time and becoming familiar with stuff through lots of reading of threads/reviews/brochures, viewing of demo clips... I've been able to narrow down what I want, from where it's manufactured, what price I'm willing to pay, size constraints. Supporting a local small builder rather than a corporate conglomerate... supporting a conglomerate because they have the funds necessary to research/develop new ideas...

Sorry, rambling. Overall...

Variety Is Good.

 

[Mosfed]

I get what you are saying.

For me, what really resonates is less the number of companies out there and more the fact that they are all doing the same damn thing. How many Big Muff clones, Ross Compressor clones. Fuzz Face clones, etc can the market handle? That's why when I see someone who is talking about entering the pedal business I wish them well, but think, my lord that is the LAST business I would want to enter. Unless of course you can find a niche that works really well - like Darkglass.

Variety is amazing. My issue is that even though we have SO many companies there is surprisingly little variety in what is available.

Part of it may be that many bassists and guitarists believe, as I do, that most of what we need has already been done and that the great tone that we seek is in the vintage realm with some modern adjustments. When I am looking for a phase circuit, I am more likely to seek out the ones that I know and love - ie the MXR Phase 90 script or the Mu-Tron Phasor II - than to take a gamble on someone's new idea of phase. So I am sure that it is our own fault that there isn't more innovation in the space.

 

[DagoMaino]

I'm sure it's a tough industry to be in for certain. In terms of innovation, I think it still happens. Subdecay, Rainger FX, Redwitch, Source Audio are a few that come to mind that have contributed some boundary pushin' boxes. All in all the crazy effects likely take much longer to develop and have lower opportunity to move in quantity and/or price, so I can see why many builders gotta stick to the staples to try to stay afloat.

 

[Feral Feline]

I thought about it some more... I think what I was trying to get at was "nuance", whatever form that term may take.

Ex: Multiples of the basic Muff circuit will have different players buying for different reasons...

Our first player buys brand "A" for the name alone (a dirtier slang name than Muff Pi)
Another player buys brand "B" because he likes the colour of the box and does NOT want any innuendo in the name.
Another player buys brand "C" because that brand is from his/her home town.
Another player buys brand "X" because that brand offers the muff circuit with a clean blend.
Another player buys brand "Y" because that brand gives more grunt to the circuit at 400Hz than other copies.
Another player buys brand "Z" because that brand basically offers it as a kit in a 'plain brown wrapper' and the buyer wants to build it himself/herself and not have garish graphics, names, colours, oversized box for what's inside, ugly knobs, non-battery/battery-only powered etc. pedal from the plethora of other brands cloning the circuit.
Yet another player wants the 'original' circuit so buys EHX, and if EHX no longer makes an 'Authentic' version of its own pedal, buyer goes to Boutique builder who uses all the same elements (wires, diodes, resisters etc. IDK) that made up the original "authentic" circuit.

Loads of muff circuits, loads of nuances.

Yes, I said "Plethora".

There are probably as many reasons for buying this cloned circuit over that cloned circuit as there are clones of that circuit. Or, did I choose too circuitous of a circumferential route to get my obtuse angle across the diameter of the perimeter of the circuit idea? Send in the clones and you'll have drove(s) a/of hard bargain(s). Anchors aweigh, we are awash in a sea of info in this age...

YMMV (Your Muff May Vary)

 

[MothBox]

With smaller companies I find theres a lot of dirt on offer. I'm happy to have a couple of OD and distortion pedals and love a bit of gated fuzz but I'd really like to see more in the way of non-grit pedals from smaller manufacturers.

I think Earthquaker & Subdecay have done this pretty well and do offer a good range of devices, although most are a little above my budget.

Things like envelope filters, delays, reverbs, choruses would be welcome additions to the boutique market. The issue is that with smaller companies the R&D attached to these more complex circuits results in higher costs for the consumer. Producing clones of pedals, in my opinion, doesn't warrent a high price. Innovation does.

 

[gregmon79]

Honestly, I think its friggen awesome the way that bassists are catered to these days! I remember when I first started there was only the ODB3 and an octave and or a fuzz here and there. It seems to me there was a lot of bassists out there that were fed up it and built their own or companies soon realized that bassists have been left out of the picture for the most part this whole time and that there was a whole other market out there.

I would hate to be a builder coming up in the effects world today. I really hand it to guys like Doug at DG or Ryan at Fuzzrocious, IMO, these guys have gone out of their way to make a great bass pedal rather it be a dirt box (which is mainly what these two companies seem to have focused mostly on so far) or a preamp. There are al ot of other builders out there too that Im missing but those two spring to mind instantly when I think of boutique bass pedal builders. I believe in the smaller guys building pedals today. And IMO, I would rather give those guys 2 to $400 for a pedal than I would to boss or the like. Not that I have anything against boss or the like, I just prefer to go with what I believe is better for me. Mind you I have more than a couple boss pedals but some of my fav pedals are the ones built by DG and Idiot Box, Source Audio and EQD or VFE.

I myself have about 20 pedals on my board and own close to 50 all together. I too have proabaly gone trough at least 125 to 150 pedals the last two years. Im always trading/flipping/selling to experiment and see how far I can take my tone and see what other pedals have to offer in that way. I love pedals. Some dont use them, they just plug their bass straight into their all tube head amd go. I am not that guy. But I fully support the market for what it is today and Im grateful and happy there is so much variety now. It does tend to put a large dent in my bank account but I guess thats the price you pay for experimentation sometimes. Pedal canyland overdose indeed, stick the needle in my arm!!!

Thanks Laurent for turning me on to the Tone Report website! Awesome stuff, I never heard of it. Bookmarked and researching!

 

[Laurent]

I'm sure it's a tough industry to be in for certain. In terms of innovation, I think it still happens. Subdecay, Rainger FX, Redwitch, Source Audio are a few that come to mind that have contributed some boundary pushin' boxes. All in all the crazy effects likely take much longer to develop and have lower opportunity to move in quantity and/or price, so I can see why many builders gotta stick to the staples to try to stay afloat.

I would add Pigtronix to your list. They have issued a number of products that I had never seen before. It's often a unique combination of products but that still qualifies as innovation in my book. Some of these products end up being very complicated but that is another story. Zvex might also fit that bill. Ever tried their Super Ring modulator? Pretty crazy stuff!

 

[zacmac]

I would add Pigtronix to your list. They have issued a number of products that I had never seen before. It's often a unique combination of products but that still qualifies as innovation in my book. Some of these products end up being very complicated but that is another story. Zvex might also fit that bill. Ever tried their Super Ring modulator? Pretty crazy stuff!

Pigtronix engineer is Howard Davis who was the brainchild at electro harmonix in the late 70's. He's responsible for the Deluxe Memory Man as well as numerous others

 

[BawanaRik]

I thought about it some more... I think what I was trying to get at was "nuance", whatever form that term may take.

Ex: Multiples of the basic Muff circuit will have different players buying for different reasons...

Our first player buys brand "A" for the name alone (a dirtier slang name than Muff Pi)
Another player buys brand "B" because he likes the colour of the box and does NOT want any innuendo in the name.
Another player buys brand "C" because that brand is from his/her home town.
Another player buys brand "X" because that brand offers the muff circuit with a clean blend.
Another player buys brand "Y" because that brand gives more grunt to the circuit at 400Hz than other copies.
Another player buys brand "Z" because that brand basically offers it as a kit in a 'plain brown wrapper' and the buyer wants to build it himself/herself and not have garish graphics, names, colours, oversized box for what's inside, ugly knobs, non-battery/battery-only powered etc. pedal from the plethora of other brands cloning the circuit.
Yet another player wants the 'original' circuit so buys EHX, and if EHX no longer makes an 'Authentic' version of its own pedal, buyer goes to Boutique builder who uses all the same elements (wires, diodes, resisters etc. IDK) that made up the original "authentic" circuit.

Loads of muff circuits, loads of nuances.

Yes, I said "Plethora".

There are probably as many reasons for buying this cloned circuit over that cloned circuit as there are clones of that circuit. Or, did I choose too circuitous of a circumferential route to get my obtuse angle across the diameter of the perimeter of the circuit idea? Send in the clones and you'll have drove(s) a/of hard bargain(s). Anchors aweigh, we are awash in a sea of info in this age...

YMMV (Your Muff May Vary)

Then there's the Rat clones, the Green box clones, and some mix boxes.

I believe the BYOC Mouse mixes a Rat with Blues Driver and TS ideas.

 

[ole Jason]

You see the same pedals because that is what sells and what people use in typical bands. How many of us play in a band where we could use an Adrenalinn on bass and not sound completely absurd?

 

[gregmon79]

You see the same pedals because that is what sells and what people use in typical bands. How many of us play in a band where we could use an Adrenalinn on bass and not sound completely absurd?

I have to agree with this statement too. It seems like any interview I find with a builder, that question is sometimes asked, why do you choose to build the ones you do?, and the answer is the same most times. Most say they build what will sell. I also hear it's nice to try and be innovative and try new things as well, but they do have to sell enough to keep a float. The pedal industry has got to be a hard one. Especially if you're just getting out there or starting. There's so many builders out there now. Some guys even take it upon themselves, or would like to (like me) and build their own.

I hand it to those companies that are and have been coming out with odd and wild stuff, it takes a lot of balls to put out some of the things say pigtronixs puts out and at the price they do it at. I know I can't afford a $400 pedal on most occasions unless I REALLY want it. Otherwise I'll buy used and try and keep it in the 50 to $150 range. I think a lot of builders really keep that mind in the end, "is this going to sell?". I can't blame them either. They picked a hard industry to be in.


Killing gods

 

[Explorer]

The old days of the pedal ménage a trois with Boss, MXR and Electro-Harmonix are long gone.

Once you remove dirt from consideration, the amount of builders under consideration shrinks by a huge factor. When you consider only companies which make envelope filters *and* delays *and* reverb *and* modulation, you're left mostly with larger companies like the big three, along with Dititech/DOD, Ibanez, cloners like Joyo and Mooer, and a few smaller companies who have great designers.

Despite all the options, I see a lack of creativity from builders. Everybody is doing the same 7 pedals with minor tweaks. Instead of churning me-too products, I would like to see true innovations.

Again looking at current pedals, the majority are dirt. Even someone like me can occasionally get a schematic and build a simpler dirt pedal.

The places you see creativity are where outside of the easier-to-build circuits. I could never put together stuff from 3Leaf, FEA Labs, Iron Ether, or Source Audio, among others. Serious design and building chops, whether using old-school techniques or cutting edge DSP, are what distinguish the innovators.

I think an interesting question is suggested by the first post, though: What would you all consider to be true creativity in audio processing?

Of course there is a repetitive element in effects. What would you consider to be a truly new effect? More control options? Or a completely new sound?

 

[Feral Feline]

Yup, even pedal builders gotta eat, whether they're working for a corporation or working for themselves.

...
Pedal candyland overdose indeed, stick the needle in my arm!!!
...

^ Somebody oughta sig that! (fixed it, you were typing so fast you missed the "d" in candy)

Pigtronix engineer is Howard Davis who was the brainchild at electro harmonix in the late 70's. He's responsible for the Deluxe Memory Man as well as numerous others

Love insider behind the scenes info like this ^.

You see the same pedals because that is what sells and what people use in typical bands. How many of us play in a band where we could use an Adrenalinn on bass and not sound completely absurd?

Not many to be sure, but I sure would like to hear that!

I can totally understand why anyone is overdosing in Pedal Candyland, or overwhelmed by all the choices.
The number of options will fall or rise to what the market will bear, and at the moment it's a bear market, one that's leaving many players' bank accounts bare.

I'm blown away by what some people have spent, how many pedals they've tried, how many they flip...
I'm a packrat, I keep all my shiny baubles and hope I'll be able to use them all at some point, sooo...
My accountant assures me that I won't soon overdose...

 

[kleinenenten]

I think variety in clones is cool. I can't speak much since I don't have the cash, but I like to look/listen! Currently looking for a muff that is both dark and cutting, if that's even possible. Have both Deluxe Bass Muff and MXR BFD, and leaning towards the Muff for now. I feel like I'm almost there with that one. Not a huge problem, as my B3K covers my dirt NEEDS, but as we all know dirt needs and wants are very different from each other.

The TAFM seems infinitely tweakable, but I rarely hear mild fuzz on it. If I went boutique, that's what I'm thinking now. But I'd miss the crossover on my Deluxe Muff. Anything do that on its own.

I'm also intrigued about Rat pedals. I hear rave reviews about so many (fuzzes too), but they seem so harsh to me! I need mild, and that doesn't seem to be around too much.

 

[kleinenenten]

I think variety in clones is cool. I can't speak much since I don't have the cash, but I like to look/listen! Currently looking for a muff that is both dark and cutting, if that's even possible. Have both Deluxe Bass Muff and MXR BFD, and leaning towards the Muff for now. I feel like I'm almost there with that one. Not a huge problem, as my B3K covers my dirt NEEDS, but as we all know dirt needs and wants are very different from each other.

The TAFM seems infinitely tweakable, but I rarely hear mild fuzz on it. If I went boutique, that's what I'm thinking now. But I'd miss the crossover on my Deluxe Muff. Anything do that on its own?

I'm also intrigued about Rat pedals. I hear rave reviews about so many (fuzzes too), but they seem so harsh to me! I need mild, and that doesn't seem to be around too much.

 

[gregmon79]

If you are looking for a rat type dist that can do mild OD to all out great rat dist, the blower box by idiot box is really hard to beat. Very versatile and the simple EQ is sweet. You can dial so much low end in. Never heard another dist pedal sound like this one especially with the low end it retains and provides.


Killing gods