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Pedal "coupler" question...

#41
hintz said:
I actually have a bunch of Hosa patch cables and never had an issue, but I do wonder if they degrade your signal or not ya know?! I've had issues with more expensive cables every time unfortunately!! :(. I still wonder though, I cant help it....but the Hosa ones I already have might be the answer?? I got a bunch and none ever went bad!!

Anyways, I have couplers on the way and a George L. kit, but a good friend highly recommended this "disaster area" brand and since i will need different sizes which the EBS apparently dont have, so ill hold on that. I'm just gonna keep it simple and go with those and get a cable tester finally!!

Really, my point was to see if there was a safe way to use these and I'm hearing mixed results so for now I'm just using cables and ill just text them periodically as well as cleaning them and the jacks with deoxit on a qtip to hopefully give them a longer life!? I also left plenty of space to be able to unplug them if needed...

I love how on TB I usually find the answer within the first page or two! Thanks everyone, really!!
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in short runs capacitance isn't as important. but inferior soldering and cold solder joints can be a problem. if you do long cable runs then you got a problem. my suggestion is measure the full length of your rig every inch to the board, in the board, and from the board. remember do this after a dry fit and before you drill your board. if you don't like the sound. a buffer. a looper, or line driver maybe in order. Hell an eq or boost can do the same thing. you only need one buffer inline. put it at end to lift your signal a bit. Active/Passive input volume matching. is a personal issue, and sound is subjective. hope this helps.
 
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#42
Aidenn7 said:
in short runs capacitance isn't as important. but inferior soldering and cold solder joints can be a problem. if you do long cable runs then you got a problem. my suggestion is measure the full length of your rig every inch to the board, in the board, and from the board. remember do this after a dry fit and before you drill your board. if you don't like the sound. a buffer. a looper, or line driver maybe in order. Hell an eq or boost can do the same thing. you only need one buffer inline. put it at end to lift your signal a bit. Active/Passive input volume matching. is a personal issue, and sound is subjective. hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thank you! Yes, I dry fitted/measure everything and plan on doing the same with the cables.
 
#43
t
hintz said:
Thank you! Yes, I dry fitted/measure everything and plan on doing the same with the cables.
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test each pedal in line, power cables always cross audio cables. perpendicularly. avoid having them touch. cable tie downs and zipties are great. buffer at end of board. if you use a battery mount it outside pedal for quick change works great on fuzz not digital. a hpf is also a good idea
 
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#45
walterw said:
most pedals have an angle to the sides, even pedals with supposedly straight sides can have a bit of angle, putting pressure on the jacks.
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I thought couplers would be a good idea too. Oops, in the bin they went.

20161230_073252551_iOS.jpg
 
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#48
Use pancake jacks instead of couplers. Couplers are a pain, especially if you want to move one pedal over just a smidge. You can't because it's literally coupled. That and since they can't move they just cause connectivity problems. One guitarist I played with only used couplers and his pedals kepts slowly working their way off the coupler and disconnecting.

Just looked up EBS cables, nice! Will have to try some out.
 
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#50
farace said:
Will I be excommunicated if I admit I've been using cheap colored cables from Radio Shack kind of like these?

View attachment 1037208
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That type of strain relief actually works well in nasty laboratory environment CAT5/6 cabling. I have hundreds that get pulled at and tugged a lot. Over ten years ago, I replaced the hundreds of hand crimped cables that were failed or failing. By failING I mean degraded signal, working but at a degraded network speed, or wiggle and it works or drops out. Not one hard failure with the replacements. Strain relief can dry out and crack and I take them out of service, but they still work and give a good visual indication of age. There is plenty of HF vibration in the labs 24/7, and the fumes attack plastic and rubber. On the pedal board, they may last as long or longer than more expensive cables. Avoiding sharp bends will help with any coaxial type cable (instrument cables are coaxial)
NaH said:


I'm trying these Peavey 4" patches (from Parts Express) on a "tiny board" (also from Parts Express):



Note that the board was made for smaller pedals. TC Electronic stuff is wider, etc. Had to cut the foam to get it to fit. I think I'm also going to adjust the foam in the lid because TC stuff is also taller. Not completely impressed by the bottom part (which is sitting over foam underneath), but it seems to work and was cheaper/smaller than others.
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That setup probably fine, but only if the cables fail, I would try longer cables to avoid the sharp bends between the pedals. I imagine they are made of materials that can be bent without damage. It depends mostly on how "strong" the strain relief is and if the dielectric is compressible. Compressed dielectric = increased capacitance. I really doubt that is going to happen, but a possibility if cable is really forced into a sharp bend. No need to worry about it, unless there is a premature failure.

.
 
#51
motoxer101 said:
This guy is right. Wasn't looking for an argument, but I've had the exact opposite experience with equal if not more use.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.
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Yeah I wasn't either man, it's all good. I just try to warn folks off of these if asked about them. I just know I didn't fully get it even after some warned me, I was stubborn about it. I paid for that. @hintz is the man and a good buddy of mine so I wanted to steer him the right way. Or rather the way I myself think would be better.
 
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#52
NortyFiner said:
Looked up the EBS cables. They look neat, but $6 for one shorty? Wow. The short Hosa flatheads are $20 for a six-pack from Amazon. I just wish Hosa made a flathead in like a 18" or 2 foot length.
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For the price, the EBSs are a great value and they really are pretty good patches for boards you're trying to save space on. I think I use about 5 or 6 of them. I will say this, I bought a handful a year or so after they were first released, this is after I grabbed some when they were first released, and I've had a couple go bad on me in a short time. But maybe 2 out of 15 isnt terrible. And for the price, I cant complain. I'd buy another handful without question still.
 
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#54
i used the straight one on 2 MXR pedals. and it worked fantastic for a couple years. i then rebuilt my board and used the coupler on 2 BOSS pedals. they refuse to lay flat. and i'm been getting some crunch. after typing this, i'm gonna find some EBS jobbers
 
#55
Yes, they're bad. The couplers I mean. They will destroy the jack eventually. Or not really, but the innards of the jack, on the board in which it resides on. Because they are NOT flexible. The EBS wires and or real pancake plugs are considerably better. Avoid at all means.
I tried to use them on Boss pedals even, which are always designed the same and input/output plugs are the same level/height. It acts as a lever inside and will break the circuitry. Most, if not all pedals today have all their jacks soldered ONTO the circuit board in small square boxes, and these ones - the couplers - will move whenever you step on a pedal for turning it off and on, ever so slightly. Eventually you will have solder cracks inside, and mains hum going through. On both pedals.

They may work on older or pur analog designs with input output jacks that are NOT soldered onto any board, but has wires from them going to the board, like this:

1979f19c.jpg



But that defeats its purpose because they are not side by side to any "next" pedal in the chain, but this solution can occur on pedals that have the jacks at left right order too. But on the following ones, those couplers will NOT work:

klon_ktr_centaur_06.jpg



But a small EBS patch cord, and the like, Lava, Evidence, George L, soldered on pancake plugs, will work on any of these without problems.
 
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#56
If you have your pedals on any velcro or leave their rubber feet on, or rubber pads on the bottom, THEY WILL MOVE WHILE PRESSING THE PEDAL. Even if it is the slighest. Avoid couplers.

For one, if you need to unplug one of them couplers you have to remove both adjacent pedals at the same time. If you use small flat patch cables as the EBS, You just needs to turn loose one of the pedals and remove the plug from both pedals. With hardware couplers like these you need to move the pedals (both- two of them) to the left and right FIRST since you can't move anyone of them upwards from the pedalboard. Which means you may have to remove all other pedals to the left and right before changing it out something in the middle. You have to fiddle with it like it was some kind of Rubiks Cube or something. This is regardless how they are made inside, and regardless how much perfect level they are with each other. The space you're saving to the left and right is neglible, at least compared to EBS, or other cables. That space is eaten up by all the unwieldiness, and trouble you have to go through in making up perfect contact all of the time (that they don't move up or down while pressing on them switches) and the risk of ruining the solder inside the printed circuit board. And on top of this, you can't mix pedals with front or top loaded input output jacks, as you can with a little longer EBS patch cable, or something else.

There's too many caveats and disadvantages with those couplers, if you add them all up:

1. Will not work with soldered on jacks inside the circuit board.
2. Can't mix pedals with different input output orientation. Say, top or front oriented jacks.
3. No pedals I know of, will stay the same when pressing the switch, due to their rubber feet, pad, or velcro they reside on. They flex! Even on a hard floor, without pedalboard, they'll move.
4. When having to reach or change out that pedal in the middle of a board, you have to move all the rest of them first, from the left to the right.
5. You can't use these new small micro pedals out there. If they're placed too close you will not be able to aim your foot or toe to just that one switch. You'll risk of rubbing and knocking the other adjacent pedals switches and control knobs too.
6. You can't use couplers when you change rows. Say a pedals output jack goes into any input jack to a pedal that's ABOVE it. The pedal board just ends, on it's way to the left. Why bother with these at all? Then you have to put all pedals in one line only. How much space saving is that?
7. When having to use the offset ones, do you really see how much space you've "saved"? Quite the opposite! You have to have increased space, instead, "up-down" or "front-to-back" so to speak!

Maybe, they will work just when all the following is met:

1. They have free jacks inside, not soldered directly to any board.
2. You will only keep TWO pedals maximum, and will never expand your collection.
3. And those two pedals will be of the exact same height at the input/output jack at all times.


Slightly too limiting if you'd ask me. A niched and too narrow "demographic"... ;)

- - - - - -

EDIT: Here it is explained, all of it. The same site as with the buffer, bypass things:

Invalid Link Removed
 
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#58
I used some of those offset couplers many years ago and they definitely proved to be unreliable. Then again, this was before I had the pedals mounted on a board, so the suggestions that these couplers can work "as long as your pedals are solidly mounted" seems reasonable. I'm pretty happy with teh EBS cables for now though so don't foresee myself researching this matter any further.
 
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#59
hintz said:
Nothing is worse to me than having technical difficulties on stage
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Be prepared for these couplers then!!!!
If you haven't had any troubles before, you will with these couplers!

Because:
If you have happened to have a EBS patch cable, Lava, Evidence or other crap out on you, you can keep a spare cable in your gig bag, just as well as you keep spare strings. You can swap it out between two tunes. The noise it will make during a song will be the same. That bothers both you, band members, and audience.

But if you crap out your output jack soldering due to the couplers it will sound - basically - the same in the signal line, but you can then change out to anything you like, a new coupler or a new EBS patch cable but it won't solve your problem because it is broken inside the pedal, at the circuit board. And the noise will persist, because you've ruined the jack inside where it connects to the circuit board. Try to fix that in between sets!

- - - - - - -

I've heard that Steve Morses guitar tech, used to change out all his old Lexicon rack units to a DEEPER frame, and replaced all input output jacks to "regular" ones. In order to make room for it you had to have ample space back and front. Then the plugs and jacks could move, but as they soldered new internal wires that went on to the circuit board, the solder on circuit board couldn't flex and crack at all. These cracks and breaks were caused by the units mounted in a big rack which jumped up and down while transporing it in large vans, and of course on flights and so on. The trick was that they had to change out all the wire to the selector switches and vol/ctrl pots too.
 
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#60
FWIW, I can't see the space saving made on this video, at all, it's even more distance between the two pedals...



Also, take a guess which of his pedals he can rock loose from the velcro, and lift straight up in the air? ...yes, none... except the first one.
 
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