Pentatonics??

[oren]

Most bass plying is either playing variations on a signature riff for a song (think Louie Louie, Cream's Sunshine of Your Love, or Herbie Hancock's Chameleon) or moving between strongly stated chord tones, most often (but not always, depending on genre and style) the root. Over time you will learn different patterns for getting from one place to another in the allotted time. After that you can add embellishments that help flavor your line. You'll (hopefully) also learn to do that in a way that supports the musical context without getting in the way of your band mates. Good luck and have fun!

 

[scottrolf]

I love this.

 

[Chicory Blue]

Pentatonics are lovely for flashy fills and reasonably safe improvisational territory, but I think you'll find few concepts more sacred to bassists than chord tones. As a musician, you can and absolutely should be entertaining and expressive, but as a bassist, you also have a job in the band to be the foundation, and that responsibility deserves equal if not greater attention.

Your ultimate goal is to make the strongest statement you can while saying as little as possible.

--^@

 

[scottrolf]

Pentatonics are lovely for flashy fills and reasonably safe improvisational territory, but I think you'll find few concepts more sacred to bassists than chord tones. As a musician, you can and absolutely should be entertaining and expressive, but as a bassist, you also have a job in the band to be the foundation, and that responsibility deserves equal if not greater attention.

Your ultimate goal is to make the strongest statement you can while saying as little as possible.

--^@

Well said.

 

[delta7fred]

I'm a huge fan of Bill Nelson (BeBop Deluxe).

There's a blast from the past. In about 1974 I was head hunted by bill Nelson to join his replacement band after he had sacked his original BeBop Deluxe. I turned him down because I wasn't in a position to turn pro at the time.

I bumped into him a few years ago at a party (he is a friend of a neighbour of mine) and reminded him of it, he didn't hold any grudges.

 

[scottrolf]

There's a blast from the past. In about 1974 I was head hunted by bill Nelson to join his replacement band after he had sacked his original BeBop Deluxe. I turned him down because I wasn't in a position to turn pro at the time.

I bumped into him a few years ago at a party (he is a friend of a neighbour of mine) and reminded him of it, he didn't hold any grudges.

Wow.
Being a guitarist, my favorite all-time solo (as still is today) is Bill's in the live version of Adventures In A Yorkshire Landscape from the Live! In The Air Age LP.
There is SO much soul in it.
BTW - Bill is still relevant today and is still releasing new work.

 

[delta7fred]

Wow.
Being a guitarist, my favorite all-time solo (as still is today) is Bill's in the live version of Adventures In A Yorkshire Landscape from the Live! In The Air Age LP.
There is SO much soul in it.

I've got to admit I don't have a lot of Bill's recorded stuff but will definitely look that one up.

As an aside, I chose to stay as an engineer with a regular salary and a pension scheme rather than seek fame and fortune on the road. A couple of guitarists I knew tried it and and ended up jobless and penniless in a few short months.

I am now reaping the benefits of paying into the pension scheme, I'm now retired and can play when I like and don't have to rely on the meagre rewards it offers.

 

[scottrolf]

I've got to admit I don't have a lot of Bill's recorded stuff but will definitely look that one up.

As an aside, I chose to stay as an engineer with a regular salary and a pension scheme rather than seek fame and fortune on the road. A couple of guitarists I knew tried it and and ended up jobless and penniless in a few short months.

I am now reaping the benefits of paying into the pension scheme, I'm now retired and can play when I like and don't have to rely on the meagre rewards it offers.

Here it is.
Now you know where my avatar came from.


I too am an engineer and went for the steady salary.
Now, I'm looking at retirement with the next couple of years.
Finally, I'll be able to have the time to pursue ALL of my interests.

 

[DavC]

it is a combo of All ... chords/chord notes , scales of whatever kind ...

if you're in the key of 'C' ... play away with all those Am Pentas ..!! and fun passing tones ...

we all use the same notes/scales ... just have different basic jobs ... i play mainly keys & bass ,.. then gtr/vocals ... and several other instruments thru my life ...

i'd say the most important thing is to ' Listen ' ... we can write music any way we want , which might catch folks of guard some times .! lots of writers never studied any music theory ..! know your keys , scales , chords ... the correct notes are hiding in there somewhere ..!!

 

[scottrolf]

it is a combo of All ... chords/chord notes , scales of whatever kind ...

if you're in the key of 'C' ... play away with all those Am Pentas ..!! and fun passing tones ...

we all use the same notes/scales ... just have different basic jobs ... i play mainly keys & bass ,.. then gtr/vocals ... and several other instruments thru my life ...

i'd say the most important thing is to ' Listen ' ... we can write music any way we want , which might catch folks of guard some times .! lots of writers never studied any music theory ..! know your keys , scales , chords ... the correct notes are hiding in there somewhere ..!!

Someone once said "You're never more than one fret away from hitting the correct note".

I know I got off on a tangent just because I love discussing anything music related, but what I have gained the most from this post is to start dissecting the actual chords and not focus on scales and modes. That in itself is extremely valuable to me and thank you all for hammering that point home!

 

[Rib 13]

My question here is, can I blend in major and minor pentatonic scales within a bass line?
If so, when and where is that applicable?

yes, of course, but it all depends on the style of music you are doing and the role the bass instrument is supposed to play. Funk, especially classic funk and soul, is chock full of Major and Minor Pentatonic bass lines ("Skin Tight" by Ohio Players or "I Gotcha" by Joe Tex for examples) and both funk and soul also often utilizes the Blues Scale itself. Approaching the bass like you are playing lead guitar is fine as long as you understand that you are more constructing bass figures of one or a few bars, with emphasis on support and groove, with the intent of repeating them in many cases with an occasional fill, as opposed to a long multi bar linear approach of constructing a guitar solo

 

[delta7fred]

Here it is.
Now you know where my avatar came from.


I too am an engineer and went for the steady salary.
Now, I'm looking at retirement with the next couple of years.
Finally, I'll be able to have the time to pursue ALL of my interests.

Thanks for the link, listening to it now. I just listened to another YT live performance of it and while not my normal listening material I very much enjoyed it.

I try and listen to links posted on TB as it gets me out of my listening rut and I almost always enjoy them (I dare not say who's I don't enjoy as it would probably get me perma-banned from TB for heresy).

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Look into chord substitutions. The general rule is if two chords share two or more notes, you can substitute them.

Example:
Cmaj7 is C-E-G-B
Emin7 is E-G-B-D

They share 3 notes.

If it's a I-IV-V progression with C as the I chord, you could play the pentatonic notes of Em pentatonic instead of C major pentatonic.

Give it a shot.

You do realize that Emin7 and Cmaj7 are basically the same chord on different "root" position ...
E/Cmaj9 and Emin7 are the same thing ... Just sayin'

A chord subtitution that would be interesting would be :
C7 to F#7
C7 = CEGBb
F#7 = F# A# C# E
They share Bb/A# and E while both aren't related by key or invertion

 

[Clef_de_fa]

My real contribution to this thread :


all 4 episodes are very fun to watch and easy to understand, it may even put in casual words something that you haven't catch.

 

[Alexis Duntov]

Look into chord substitutions. The general rule is if two chords share two or more notes, you can substitute them.

Example:
Cmaj7 is C-E-G-B
Emin7 is E-G-B-D

They share 3 notes.

If it's a I-IV-V progression with C as the I chord, you could play the pentatonic notes of Em pentatonic instead of C major pentatonic.

Give it a shot.

That's very interesting. I never knew that. I'll have to try that in some arrangements in my band. Thanks!

 

[HolmeBass]

I think pentatonic are great. but mostly in a riff context, like when the tune is hanging on a riff. For chord changes chord tones will always be the strongest, most consonant tones, followed by scale tones and then chromatics. The major and minor pentatonics do count as scales, so they can be used for bassline tones.

So you could even, perhaps, bridge a particular chord change in a chord progression with a pentatonic riff, maybe even dropping a b3 against a 7 chord. That would be a pretty chromatic tone, but it could also sound good. And if it sounds good it is good.

 

[lermgalieu]

These answers are all good. All I will offer is this: don't always revert to the mechanical. Learn what is supposed to work, practice it, absorb it. But also, when confronted with something new, stand back and listen. What do you hear? The best lines are one flowing...uh, line. It's like a river or it's own story. Some of the best bass lines have strong melodic content that creates another dimension to a tune. Other times (usually) they are the motor under the hood. Both roles are essential IMO.

 

[StringNavigator]

My question here is, can I blend in major and minor pentatonic scales within a bass line?
If so, when and where is that applicable?

For my level, whatever that is, I'm doing the following:

Learn to play the guitar line from My Girl (dm / / dm dm dm dm dm ).
Listen to The Joker, Brown Eyed Girl. Tighten Up
Listen to Berry Oakley's bass line from the Allman Brothers - Jessica
Listen to James Jamerson at Motown.
For minor pentatonics, listen to Led Zeppelin or Johnny Winter's early stuff...Willie Dixon songs...
THEY ALL COPIED WILLIE DIXON...
Rolling and Tumbling, Spoonful, Forty-Four...Messing With the Kid...

------------------------
Play along with your song. It's like cooking a Soul Stew, dig?

Simple quarter notes at first. Crawl - then walk.
You must determine the chord changes before anything else.
Roots first!
Add thirds (major or minor)
Add 5th and you have a triad. (Look out this could be a flatted fifth, eh?)
Add 7th for Major7 or Dominant7.
Now you're playing your chord progression with seventh chords and triads.

Now,
Play major pentatonic scale on major triads. Or major scale.
Play minor pentatonic scale on minor triads. Or one of the other minor scales.
Play the mixolydian mode on the dominant seventh chords.

Other minor scales are the Natural, Harmonic, Dorian and Jazz Minor.

Add 5b-4 to the minor pentatonic to get the blues.
Add 3b-3 to the major pentatonic to get the blues.
Add 3b-3 to the mixolydian mode to get the blues.

Always remember to play whole, half and quarter notes on bass.
Work with the drummer. This is not guitar. You are now in the Rhythm Section.
Add dotted quarter note for syncopation and shuffle beats.
Use straight eighth notes for rumble type songs.

Study how the chords and scales blend and connect on the fingerboard.
Don't forget the scale walk-ups into chords a la Johnny Cash (Remember Luther Perkins?). This is the BP's job to signal chord changes, as drummers roll into different song sections.

This is all simple stuff. I don't know what comes next level.
I play Dixieland on the upright, also.
It gets wild, but your fingers should always follow your ears.

 

[StringNavigator]

I love this.

I do not want to approach the bass as I would a lead guitar. i.e. I don't want to sound like I came from a guitar background as I know you folks can spot us a mile away.

This video may explain the original question. Guitarists live in a guitar world. And I don't hold it against them. I also play guitar as a SECOND instrument. Of course, this video is NOT bass. This is "guitar" being played on a bass. Any bass player can do this. But it's not BASS. It's actually a guitar duet, isn't it? Anyone who studied Mel Bay knows that.

Whatever people here are spending their valuable time to help out say, it does not apply to this video. There is a huge divide between how guitarists and bassists approach music. I play guitar and plectrum banjo. But when I do, I don't play banjo as a bass or guitar as a banjo. Each instrument should be approached in the way that it is accustomed to being played. In Western Music, being traditional, every instrument has it's own way of being played. Bass and guitar are two completely different instruments.

Yes, they are both tuned in fourths on the bottom four strings... They may even have the same body shape. But other instruments are tuned in fourths, also... but they are very differently played. The string bass came from the European Orchestras to back up Violins, Violas and Cellos. It was converted to Jazz and Popular music and Leo Fender converted it to become the Fender Bass.

This video is a guitar duet played on an electric bass guitar. Guitar players always think they can play bass. That it's easy. But rhythm is a talent. One cannot just walk into a bass store and walk out playing bass. But guitarists think they can. I laugh when guitarists tell me of their latest bass acquisition. I watch them play and laugh. They have no rhythm. You'll never hear a BP state that he can play drums because he plays bass. Or a marimba player competing with a pianist.

Guitarists should stick to what they know. If they wish to second on an instrument for added income, buy a banjo, mandolin or piano. Banging on barre chords will never make a BP out of a Leed Gutter Player...

I got surprised when I saw this video showing a bass being played like a guitar when we all thought that a guitar player wanted to learn bass. And also posting other videos of guitar solos on Talk Bass and trying to bring them into the Talk Bass discussion.

And BTW, being only a fret away from the right note does not apply to Bass. That is a comment best posted on a guitar player site. Believe me, we all hear those bum notes played one fret away from the true note. We just don't say anything, because the Leed Gutter Player will tell us that we are just bass players and can't understand Leed Gutter Player stuff.

A BP must play the right note EVERY TIME... or he gets fired. Something to remember for Leed Gutter Players who think they can learn bass in thirty minutes after reading "Bass Guitar For Dummies"...

It's a fortunate thing that your comments and videos in the Upright Bass section of Talk Bass. They have fingerboard players there that eat fretboard players for breakfast... when Leed Gutter Players try to hijack a Talk Bass Forum.

I would never say this to a beginner bassist, but to all Leed Gutter Players who think they can pick up a bass and become James Jamerson, I would insist that they go and pay a bass player to teach them how to play the bass. Don't waste BP's time by lecturing BP's with Leed Gutter Talk and Leed Gutter Videos from YouTube.

 

[LowActionHero]

We're still talking about the bass guitar, right?

Can't it be both?