Perceived string tautness/stiffness - body through stringing

[mouthmw]

I've searched this and I know pretty much what has been repeated, stringing through body doesn't increase the tension of the string as opposed to "top loading" (through bridge). I also noticed a lot of divided opinion on the tone and feel of stringing either way. Some say it makes no difference to either, others chime in differently.

Well, here's what I'm currently experiencing.

I've been using EB Super Slinky strings for all my roundwound needs for quite a while now, as they give me the best feel, tone and I longevity of life (I don't mind them sounding a bit dead). I tried other strings, they were either too stiff (DR Lo Rider) or a bit too floppy (DR Sunbeams, Dunlop Super Brights). I know how Super Slinky feel, as it's all I used on my Stingray (no string through) and on my previous Flea Jazz (again, no string through).

I've just gotten a Fender American Pro Jazz recently. First thing I did - setup and new strings - EB Super Slinky. This is my first bass with string through body option, so I opted for it. I set that baby up perfectly. As low (if not lower!) than my Stingray, no buzz at all and just a quarter turn tightening of truss rod was all that was needed.

But something's off. The strings feel tighter, or I should say stiffer, more taut. Almost to the point that they remind me of Lo Riders. The action is super low and easy on my left hand, but to my right hand they feel stiff. My fingers feel a bit beaten after playing it yesterday. I've tried playing closer to neck, closer to bridge, just to get a sense, and it just feels stiffer, less bouncy. No very "slinky" like.

I will string another set and top load it, and see what will happen. This is simply my experience so far. I'm very picky about my setup and strings, I definitely feel a change. Something must be causing this, and I'll try to see if it really is stringing through the body.

 

[michael_t]

The same set of strings can feel different on different basses regardless of the stringing method.

So, far you've only tried the thru-body option on your new Am Pro J. Please report back when you have a chance to try them top-loaded on the same bass with the same basic setup.

 

[mouthmw]

The same set of strings can feel different on different basses regardless of the stringing method.

So, far you've only tried the thru-body option on your new Am Pro J. Please report back when you have a chance to try them top-loaded on the same bass with the same basic setup.

Will do. I won't touch the setup, I'll just restring them (new strings though) by top loading.

 

[Linnin]

You can experiment with both methods at the same time. Run two strings through the bridge and the other two through the body. I ran E & D through the bridge with A & G through the body and found zero difference in feel or tone or sustain. Same thing when I ran E & A through the bridge and D & G through body. Try it and see what you think; feel, and hear.

 

[JTE]

You can experiment with both methods at the same time. Run two strings through the bridge and the other two through the body. I ran E & D through the bridge with A & G through the body and found zero difference in feel or tone or sustain. Same thing when I ran E & A through the bridge and D & G through body. Try it and see what you think; feel, and hear.

Me too. Did it on two different basses through a few string changes each, reversing the top-load and string-through each time. True side-by-side real time comparison of the exact same set of strings on the exact same instrument. Forced me to admit there ain't any difference.

I did with E & D top-load and A & G through body on one bass , reversed on the other.

 

[Linnin]

Me too. Did it on two different basses through a few string changes each, reversing the top-load and string-through each time. True side-by-side real time comparison of the exact same set of strings on the exact same instrument. Forced me to admit there ain't any difference.

I did with E & D top-load and A & G through body on one bass , reversed on the other.

Playing is believing.

 

[ddnidd1]

Please - some Tb'er has to chime in and Insist it absolutely increases sustain, tension and tone - or it just won't qualify as a real TB thread.

 

[mouthmw]

Well, I think this has more to do with just getting used to a new neck, and the fact that I haven't had as many gigs lately and I played less at home, so I lost some of my finger strength. I really dig the action and the way it plays now which is why I'm hesitant to put on new strings.

I might do the string swap tomorrow, but it kind of feels like a waste of a perfectly good set of strings (sure, they'd go into the "backup pack", but still). I'll see tomorrow. I mean, it plays great. Why mess with that? xD If I do the swap, I'll report back here.

EDIT: took the E string off, tried to put it through the bridge (the same string), just to see how it fits, but nah. Not too crazy about the way this particular bridge (American Standard & American Pro) feeds strings through it, so I put it back on through the body.

I'll try a set of DR Pure Blues tomorrow though (45-105). A friend is bringing me a pack, so I wonder how I'll dig these. These should be close to DR Sunbeams in terms of tension, and if I end up liking em, it just might be due to the slightly stiffer feeling of feeding through body. I'm not saying it definitely feels tighter, it just might be the new bass, the way I'm feeling at the moment or who knows. I'm just saying, I'm gonna put in a set of strings with a tension I know I couldn't work with on a jazz bass before, and see how it goes. I always have Super Slinkies to fall back on lol.

 

[renobassman]

Please - some Tb'er has to chime in and Insist it absolutely increases sustain, tension and tone - or it just won't qualify as a real TB thread.

It absolutely increases sustain, tension and tone

You may proceed.

 

[mouthmw]

I've put the DR Pure Blues (45-105) and they feel great. Not as floppy as the Sunbeams I tried on my last Jazz. Unless Pure Blues are less flexible than Sunbeams of the same gauge. I still have a felling that body through gives a tighter string attack for the right hand. Either that, or Pure Blues are different enough from Sunbeams, or it's something else. Well, I'll keep those one for a while, if they start feeling too floppy, then I'm back to Super Slinkies. Round core were always a bit too flexible/floppy to me, but so far, it's working on this bass. We'll see.

 

[jeff62]

I've never understood those that say through-body increases tension.

You wind the string to a certain tension to achieve a desired tuning. Let's say 35 lbs for the A string (as a made up example). You need the same 35 lbs of tension whether you started through bridge or through body. 35 lbs is 35 lbs, no? Regardless of the start/end points?

 

[mouthmw]

I've never understood those that say through-body increases tension.

You wind the string to a certain tension to achieve a desired tuning. Let's say 35 lbs for the A string (as a made up example). You need the same 35 lbs of tension whether you started through bridge or through body. 35 lbs is 35 lbs, no? Regardless of the start/end points?

This is exactly why I said that the actual tension is not increased, only the tautness of the string (two are not necessarily related). In fact, DR Pure Blues round core strings are more flexible than EB Super Slinky, but actually have a bit more tension (probably due to the 45-105 VS 45-100), as I had to tighten the neck ever so slightly when swapping Slinkies for Pure Blues. The difference I notice is in the tighter right hand action, strings seem to flex a bit less and have a tighter response. DR roundcore strings were always too floppy for me, but they feel alright now on my Jazz. Is it due to body through stringing? I can't say that for sure, like I said, Pure Blues might be less flexy and bouncy than Sunbeams. But roundcore strings NEVER worked for me before.

I've decided to put Super Slinkies on the bass tomorrow, and top load them. Might as well put an end to this test, at least I'll know how it feels for me, and if there's any difference at all.

 

[mouthmw]

I've just put the EB Super Slinkies by top loading them through the bridge. There is not even a shadow of a doubt that this feels different. Not even a tiny doubt in my mind. The Slinkies now feel like they've always felt to me, they're more flexible and not as tight on the right hand (and bending with left is easier!). They feel very close to body-through DR Pure Blues I had on before. It's just all around a softer feel, and those who claim that there's zero difference, well they either can't tell those differences or it's something else. Maybe the difference is less obvious on different basses (and therefore, different bridge designs), but the sharp angle of feeding the strings through the body makes them feel quite tauter. My saddles are quite low, so the angle difference is pretty big with through-body VS top-load.

Here's one caveat, a huge one. The HMV (high mass vintage) bridge that Fender's had since like 2008 (I think) is THE WORST bridge for top loading strings I've EVER used. How the hell are you supposed to avoid twisting strings when the damn bridge FORCES you to feed the string a certain way so that the damn string ball end fits?? There's no room for the string to turn whichever way it needs because the ball end won't fit all the way through unless it's in exactly one friggin position (maybe two). All of the ball ends on my strings are now positioned laying down horizontally. What the hell were they thinking and why the hell wasn't this fixed in 10 years??

I can't be sure I won't have a twisted string by stringing this way, and since I much prefer the feel on my strings when top loading, I'm seriously thinking of swapping out the bridge. Perhaps the older American Deluxe model has more room for the ball ends. Really disappointed in Fender with this!

 

[michael_t]

Here's one caveat, a huge one. The HMV (high mass vintage) bridge that Fender's had since like 2008 (I think) is THE WORST bridge for top loading strings I've EVER used. How the hell are you supposed to avoid twisting strings when the damn bridge FORCES you to feed the string a certain way so that the damn string ball end fits?? There's no room for the string to turn whichever way it needs because the ball end won't fit all the way through unless it's in exactly one friggin position (maybe two). All of the ball ends on my strings are now positioned laying down horizontally. What the hell were they thinking and why the hell wasn't this fixed in 10 years??

This "perceived tension/stiffness, top-load vs. thru-body" thing aside, here's one reason I do use the thru-body feature on my Am Std P. I'm with you in that I also hate the way the ball ends sit without being able to turn freely on the stock bridge.

 

[mouthmw]

This "perceived tension/stiffness, top-load vs. thru-body" thing aside, here's one reason I do use the thru-body feature on my Am Std P. I'm with you in that I also hate the way the ball ends sit without being able to turn freely on the stock bridge.

Absolutely awful design. Very pretty looking bridge, and if I used through-body, no problem, but the difference in feel to me is huge. I've been using a certain setup and tried many roundwounds (found my flats too) for years now, and a small change in feel throws me off. I can tell it right off. I know how my EB Super Slinkies feel, and I've been testing this thing now for 3 days. Things don't just switch the other way to me for no reason. I didn't even think of this when I first put them through body, but I felt it right away. Only then did I search about this on TB. I'm not the only one who claims there's a difference in feel. I'm VERY picky about my setup and how my strings react to my playing. I can tell right away when it's off.

 

[ixlramp]

There may well be a difference, but the only true test is to string up 2 identical strings (same gauge) side by side on the bass, which you can now do.
The scientific tension will not change, but the 'feel' might change, and will depend on the angle difference.
So if through-body increases perceived tension without increasing actual tension, that is actually a disadvantage for most bassists (except those who want low scientific tension but a stiffer feel), so the marketing hype is still mostly nonsense.

Fat bass strings don't like going through sharp angles, the result is a non-optimum curve that is probably a worse end point for a string. This is especially true for 5 string basses not using taperwounds.
I also suspect that beyond a certain amount of downforce (which is provided by top-load), more is pointless.

 

[mouthmw]

There may well be a difference, but the only true test is to string up 2 identical strings (same gauge) side by side on the bass, which you can now do.
The scientific tension will not change, but the 'feel' might change, and will depend on the angle difference.
So if through-body increases perceived tension without increasing actual tension, that is actually a disadvantage for most bassists (except those who want low scientific tension but a stiffer feel), so the marketing hype is still mostly nonsense.

Fat bass strings don't like going through sharp angles, the result is a non-optimum curve that is probably a worse end point for a string. This is especially true for 5 string basses not using taperwounds.
I also suspect that beyond a certain amount of downforce (which is provided by top-load), more is pointless.

Well yeah, I used the same strings - EB Super Slinky (45-65-80-100). I don't claim that the actual tension force changes, just the feel IMO. I didn't have to do anything in terms of tross rod adjustment, but the feel is much (to me at least) softer when stringing through the bridge (top load) as opposed to stringing through body. I even tried to play it through body for a few days, to see if I was just getting used to a new instrument. I got used to it a bit, but not completely. I always felt the strings were stiffer. Put the strings top load - instant "aha" moment. Exactly like I was used to on a jazz bass. No change in action (nice and low, super low), no change in truss rod. I swapped it string by string, rather than taking all the strings off and putting the new ones on.

I don't want floppy strings. I just got used to a very certain feel of EB Super Slinkies (in standard tuning). Round core were too floppy, Lo Rider too tight, Dunlop Super Brights too floppy, TI flats - waaay too floppy, etc. I don't think it's a disadvantage to most bassists, as some of them like a softer tension. Even softer than I like it. Some like it tighter. I've seen some guys do the same thing like I do (top load) because the feeling of a taughter string when going through body is not to their liking. I've read some do body-through because it makes the string feel tighter.

I'm not the one for "instrument myths", I don't even care much for wood tones, maple vs rosewood, magic mojo this and that. I just want a nice solid built instrument that doesn't have sloppy workmanship, sharp fret ends, weak neck wood or any mechanical failures. With those things, I know I can just slap on my Super Slinkies, setup my action the way I like it and off we go. I really feel the difference, and honestly, I wish I didn't. I wish I could just string it through the body and not ever have to care about the dumb "top load" design of the HMV bridge. I really, really wish that. But unfortunately, it feels so much better to me that way.

 

[mouthmw]

So if through-body increases perceived tension without increasing actual tension, that is actually a disadvantage for most bassists (except those who want low scientific tension but a stiffer feel)

I just remembered the advantage of this for me. TI flats. I tried them a few years ago, way too floppy and soft for me. If I string them through-body though, this just might be a great solution. I bet their feel would tighten up and I could actually give them a shot this way if I ever wanna try them on my jazz. Hmmm, very curious about this now!

I mean, I did try the DR round core strings this way and it definitely made them way more usable to me. They weren't as flexy and bendy, they were flexible just enough. So I can definitely find use for this "tightened feel", but my number one contestant for this is by far - TI flats. Loved the tone, hated the noodle feel. This could work!

 

[ixlramp]

It seems to me that making a string feel tighter for a particular actual tension is always bad, because it is the maximising of stress on your hands for a certain tension. Better to have a string that minimises stress and use a slightly higher actual tension with the advantages of that.
I can see it is helpful for when you have accidently bought strings that are too low tension for your taste, but the correct solution here is to buy a set with higher actual tension.

However, the feel is not really the marketing point, it mainly talks of extra downforce improving tone, but it seems from people's experience this is highly dubious. I think some bass brands are just choosing to profit from a bass myth instead of speaking the truth.

 

[mouthmw]

True, but TI flats don't have a higher gauge/higher tension pack. Also, I wouldn't want to go higher than 45-65-85-105 on this particular bass, and round core strings tend to be too floppy for me unless I string them through the body. Still, I much prefer EB Super Slinkies as far as roundwounds go because of their tone and feel. I got very used to their particular feel, but I've always only had top loading basses, which is why body-through stringing threw me off so much. I bet some people wouldn't notice the difference, but to me it was very very obvious.

Once I put Super Slinkies by top loading them, I couldn't put the bass down. I swear, not only did that familiar feel come back, I automatically had better control of my tone. When strings aren't as stiff feeling, the tone tends to sound crunchier to me, and I really like that. On the other hand, my P bass has La Bella flatwounds which are my absolute favorite flatwounds (45-105 gauge, but tuned half a step down - PERFECTION).