Perfect Tuning is a Mathematical Impossibility

[byronic_zero]

*Pulls out liberal arts degree*

Being "in tune" is, like, a social construction.

 

[Ostie]

I checked out back on page one. You guys fight it out.

 

[Pilgrim]

There is a bottom line to this discussion: If it sounds good, it is good.

The human ear isn't perfect, and neither is human perception. Perfect tuning is not necessary. "Good enough" tuning is what's needed.

As evidence, for a few hundred years orchestras tuned by ear to a note played on a violin. It was good enough, and it still is.

 

[FerK]

I thought the title referred to Zeno's paradox...Talkbass never fails to surprise me.

 

[redwingxix]

Former bandmate who got into playing bass was a music teacher. When I asked him why he played fretless he said "because it's always in tune"

 

[Element Zero]

Just tune to A 432 and you'll be fine.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Well I'm from Florida, and that's unacceptable. Meth is our chief export.

Okay, my mistake. I must have been thinking of

 

[IamGroot]

Just tune to A 432 and you'll be fine.

There is truth to that. Folks have been raising pitch for centuries to sound brighter.

 

[mellowinman]

I disagree with everything said on this thread.

 

[byronic_zero]

As evidence, for a few hundred years orchestras tuned by ear to a note played on a violin. It was good enough, and it still is.

There's also the argument that what you describe here is actually more "in tune" and that precision tuning (only really a thing since the electronic era) makes it harder for an ensemble to gel. This is because precision tuning shrinks the acceptable "center" of pitch. So just having everyone tune to the piano or something means the range of what sounds "in tune" is physically wider.

 

[jmlee]

Being in tune is what is pleasing to the ear—your particular, culturally-shaped ear. And the sense of what tuning means is not shared worldwide. Historically, the classical Greeks naturally overthought the problem. Pythagorean tuning actually works not badly if you don't change keys much. Blues, maybe.

 

[xnewyorka]

Yep, and for that reason, I am really looking forward to trying out this guitar when it arrives next week.
It has true temperament frets:

 

[LBS-bass]

I'm a classical pianist by training.

A big difference between a classical pianist and an electric bassist is that classical pianists don't have to learn the mechanics of the instrument. We are not expected to tune or maintain it, and even if it's in poor repair, who cares? Our pianos never go to the gig, anyway. We just learn to play and not worry about the specifics of the instrument. So well-tempered doesn't mean much to a pianist, other than that's what that book of Bach is called that is sort of our bible.

I've been playing since I was 4. I'm a guru at piano by now. Yet I can't tell you the first thing about maintenance but I know almost all aspects of guitar and bass maintenance.

Makes sense to me. Just about everything I learned early on came from my mentor who was a classically trained guitarist. That's a very different situation in that those guys do need to know how to tune, and they do need to understand why they are hearing dissonance in that interval between the high e and the b string. If they don't understand that it can't be tuned away they're in for a lot of pointless attempts.

 

[saabfender]

Yes. And?

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I remember, as a young aspiring bassist in the late 70's, trying to learn tunes by playing LP's on a turntable. I had to re-tune the bass for nearly every song, even ones on the same album, because songs were routinely pitch shifted up or down during recording or mixing because they sounded better that way. Solution: bought a variable speed turntable with a strobe light, worked a treat and cured me from worrying about perfect tuning. I had a friend who got a Peterson Strobe Tuner, drove himself crazy with it because NOTHING was EVER perfectly in tune. Most people cant hear anything that's not blatantly out of tune, particularly at low frequency, so pursuing perfection is a complete waste of time.

 

[DigitalMan]

I'll start worrying about the tuning problems with my bass after I solve the tuning problems that occur when you place a microphone in front of my mouth.

 

[jmlee]

You're lost in the woods. Entering a clearing, you find yourself face-to-face with (i) and in-tune saxophone player, (ii) an out-of-tune saxophone player, and (iii) Santa Claus.
Q: Who do you ask for directions?
A: The out-of-tune saxophone player. The other two are figments of your imagination.

 

[BargeOn]

Temper temper.

 

[higain617]

This is exactly why I don't tune.

 

[NOVAX]

Yes.