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Phil Lesh Appreciation Society: Enter the Philzone...
- Thread starter spacebassed
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I realize this may not be popular, but these days I can't listen to any 2 drummer era concerts. It's just too good with Bill as the only drummer. The whole band is very spritely, dynamic, and turns on a dime
I can't help but think of the 2 drummer stuff as a lumbering beast. That said, Steal Town Pittsburg right after Brent joined (Dec 79 I think) is pretty great. Especially the jams.
To some extent, I agree. I only saw the Dead from '82-'85 and again in '90 or '91, but these days, I listen almost exclusively to '69-'74 and I could live with just '72. It retains the energy of '71 and combines it with the beginnings of the more reflective, modal jamming from '73-'74.
Regarding Pittsburgh '79, you're probably thinking of 12/1/79, Stanley Theatre. That was one of the first tapes I got back in late '81 or early '82.
China-->
Rider
Looks Like Rain
He's Gone -->
Gloria Jam-->
C.C. Rider-->
Drums-->
Not Fade-->
Black Peter-->
Sugar Mag.
One More Sat.
That old Maxell Epitaxial XL II I have of that 2nd set may only have one more play left in it.
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
I realize this may not be popular, but these days I can't listen to any 2 drummer era concerts. It's just too good with Bill as the only drummer. The whole band is very spritely, dynamic, and turns on a dime
I can't help but think of the 2 drummer stuff as a lumbering beast. That said, Steal Town Pittsburg right after Brent joined (Dec 79 I think) is pretty great. Especially the jams.
I think the two drummers the first time around was OK. '68 and '69 had an energy that was palpable. But I think that the intensity of listening was much higher at that point than the later 2 drummer versions.
Thanks for that, space.
Originally Posted by moonliner:
...It's just too good with Bill as the only drummer. The whole band is very spritely, dynamic, and turns on a dime
FWIW, I also feel that way. Though what Edwin says about the energy of the '68/9 two-drummer set up is true, too.
In some respects, Garcia appears to have agreed. When Skull[DEL]*cough*[/DEL] and Roses came out, he described the latest incarnation as "a regular shoot-em-up saloon band."
I realize this may not be popular, but these days I can't listen to any 2 drummer era concerts. It's just too good with Bill as the only drummer. The whole band is very spritely, dynamic, and turns on a dime
I can't help but think of the 2 drummer stuff as a lumbering beast. That said, Steal Town Pittsburg right after Brent joined (Dec 79 I think) is pretty great. Especially the jams.
I agree to a point, but the late 60's band was anything but a lumbering beast.
Another thing we have to consider re: the drummers and especially Phil is that they were playing increasingly bigger places through increasingly bigger sound systems. Every note or beat they played was taking up a lot more sonic real estate, if they tried to play the way they did in the late 60's in one of those acoustical snakepits they were playing in the 80's, most of it would have been lost in translation. It would have been a total sonic mess. That being said, they just didn't have as much to prove by the time the 80's and 90's came around, they had grown complacent. I think a lot of great Phil playing happened in those last couple years of the GD, when he was trying to compensate for Garcia's apathetic (and sometimes just plain pathetic) playing.
They're a pretty grippy pick, definitely easier to hold onto than your standard pick. Those Dunlops are even grippier, but they only come in the smaller Jazz III shape. I've been using the triangle and the 2mm. With a "regular" teardrop pick I use the rounded edge and not the point like most ppl do, so the "grippy" part of the pick is in my way on the 1mm. The Dunlops are the same way, but I took a file and removed the grippy part along the edge of the pick so it's just in the middle. It's still plenty grippy. I'll probably do the same to the Telefunkens, but I'm having a hard time justifying taking the file to my new $20 picks. I'm poor.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
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- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Awesome. Im jealous. Make sure you give that show a good listen. Its one of my all time favorites. Everything is just so well played.
Yep, will do in the next day or two. Managed to find the whole thing online and am listening to Dark Star at this very moment. Phil sounds really great on this, no doubt.
Haha, you guys beat me to it on the late 60's band!
Here's a link to the circle grip 2mm Telefunkens for $12.95 shipped:
Invalid Link Removed
Edit: looks like they have them all:
Invalid Link Removed
Here's a link to the circle grip 2mm Telefunkens for $12.95 shipped:
Invalid Link Removed
Edit: looks like they have them all:
Invalid Link Removed
I refer to that particular happy interlude after the usual apocalyptic episode as "Mind Left Country Jam" (starts at 30:37). Brilliant stuff.
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
I have to say I wasn't all that into the shape of the big triangular ones, previously known as the Big Stubby. I remember when they were available the first time around and I was skeptical back then. However, Mike Gordon gave me one about 10 years ago and I hung onto it. When I was getting ready to record Reckless Habits with Great American Taxi, I decided to give it a whirl. It turns out I really like the shape. I'd say don't knock it until you give it a good amount of time, it's got a unique tone and it's a lot more maneuverable than you might think.
That said, these days I've mostly gone back to the standard Fender heavy of years gone by. The graphite has a much pointier high end that I'm avoiding and the Fender heavy gives me a rounder tone. Dialing in some attack with the Alembic filters can get the tone plenty pointy. But then, every now and then, only the graphite will do. It's much easier to play with precision with them.
Yes, I agree.... the first time through with Micky has some fantastic moments and some real fire in their playing. But when he left, the band really sprang to life, in my eyes (and ears). When he came back, the grooves got dumbed down.... Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh. Anyway, I don't mean to bash Mickey.
And yes, Stanley Theater! That's the one. He's Gone is beautiful and the intro to Not Fade Away is really sweet. I spent some time with that tape in the glow of some mind expanding treats.
Those jams .... like the humming of a beautifully complex yet organic engine.... no one on top, tumbling and purring along. My mind was blown. I still love listening to that sequence from He's Gone till the end of Black Peter.
So you're not a fan of the "bowling balls in a dryer" sound that often plagued the GD in later years? 
Had the chance to see the "GD Movie" the other day on VH1. I believe it harks back to '77. I particularly enjoy the scene where Phil and his team of engineers have both back wings removed from his custom Alembic to work on the internal electronics. Guess it was state-of-the-art for the day but it resembled something one would expect to see on the space shuttle.
Riis
Riis
They're a pretty grippy pick, definitely easier to hold onto than your standard pick. Those Dunlops are even grippier, but they only come in the smaller Jazz III shape. I've been using the triangle and the 2mm. With a "regular" teardrop pick I use the rounded edge and not the point like most ppl do, so the "grippy" part of the pick is in my way on the 1mm. The Dunlops are the same way, but I took a file and removed the grippy part along the edge of the pick so it's just in the middle. It's still plenty grippy. I'll probably do the same to the Telefunkens, but I'm having a hard time justifying taking the file to my new $20 picks. I'm poor.
I generally use the green Dunlop Tortex picks, not the teardrop ones but what I consider "standard" triangular pick shape and I never use the pointy part either, always the rounded edge. Use the rounded edge for playing guitar, too. Not sure if I would like the textured grip on the Telefunkens. Beyond the size the picks Phil and Mike use have three pointy edges so it would take a lot of adjusting on my part to get used to a pick like that.
Does anyone know if Phil is using the graphite picks when he plays his new Ritter with the tapewound strings? Seems like a graphite pick would be an odd choice with tapewounds
It was released in '77, but the footage is from Winterland, October 16-20, 1974, right before the hiatus.
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
And even shows the return of Mickey for the encore on the last night. There is a scene in the dressing room where some of the band members seem less than enthused. I wonder why Jerry kept that in there?
Loved your whole post, but this bit in particular caught my eye. I first became aware of Alexandra Palace '74 when David Gans played a Dark Star from one of those shows on his radio hour. One of those moments where music left me speechless. I've since acquired a copy (Dicks Picks #7) and the performances are just fantastic. And one of the reasons '74 is high on my list in general.
This is exactly what I do, no matter which instrument. It gives you a nice rounder, fatter tone. That's what I meant by "regular teardrop," the stardard Tortex shape (even though I guess the smaller shape is shaped more like a teardrop). If you use green Tortex (which I believe are .88) you can probably get by with using the .75mm, they have the circle grip and they're still nice and stiff. If you like the attack of the Tortex (which is also what I use in a pinch) you should really try the graphite, I think you'll dig them. I shy away from most thicker modern plastic picks, because they either don't have a crisp attack or if they do, there's tons of "pick click," which may not be too bad on electric instruments but is unacceptable on acoustic instruments. The graphite picks have both... exceptional attack without tons of click. If you also play guitar, try those graphite Dunlop Jazz III's I linked to. They're only $3 shipped for a 6-pack. It's pretty easy to remove some of the gripping surface if you want to use the rounded edge, but you still get a really great tone using the point. Very accurate picking too. I agree with Edwin on the triangle picks, if you just give them some time you might be surprised. I remember buying one in high school (but purple acrylic, not graphite) and I absolutely hated it. But my girlfriend thought it was pretty and ended up wearing it on a ball chain necklace. Remember when those were cool?
Loved your whole post, but this bit in particular caught my eye. I first became aware of Alexandra Palace '74 when David Gans played a Dark Star from one of those shows on his radio hour. One of those moments where music left me speechless. I've since acquired a copy (Dicks Picks #7) and the performances are just fantastic. And one of the reasons '74 is high on my list in general.
Aww thanks, Rick. Glad you liked it.
Dick's Pick's #7, eh? I had no idea! Thanks a lot for the heads up. I'll seek out a copy for sure.
Now for some not entirely shameless self promotion. In the context of 'that other' Dead/Lesh thread* I think it might be relevant to point out that a Dead/Lesh/Head can 'get' other kinds of music, too. I'd go so far to say that what James and Phil are doing isn't, in many respects, so very different...arguably. So: I've posted a link to me playing some Jamerson lines here:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f19/james-jamerson-me-1038197/
Or you can go straight to the linked mp3s (on my brand new, very first blog) here: http://malcolmmarkovich.blogspot.co.uk/
(You may get a 'multiple download' warning. It's only the mp3s embedding on the blog - nothing's being saved to your computer. Takes a few seconds)
*Edit: I got mixed up and thought I was posting on 'not bashing Phil'. So I've tweaked and edited... I guess I could repost this over there, but that'd be spamming, right?
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