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Phil lesh style bass
- Thread starter drewphishesp
- Start date
To my ears (and I have done a s h i t - ton of listening to live GD (and I saw 350+ shows between '80 and the end,)) the 1st era was Guild Starfire -
then several Alembics, leading to a few G&L 4's until Phil went all 6 string.
If you want that primordial sound - the easiest way forward would be obtaining a Jack Casady Epi and adding a Dark Star pickup.
The dominant sound of the 2nd half of the existence of the Grateful Dead (e.g. my era - '80-'95) was a Modulus Q6.
If you want that sound get a used Mod and an Eden Head with Eden Cabs.
Phil's current rig is all proprietary Meyer Cabs of different sizes with (as stated and shown previously here) a custom Alembic Omega or Ritter Red Dragon.
The Eye of Horus was widely criticized by many heads in the post-Jerry era because the tonal capacity for Phil to drop bombs on the same level as he could with the Modulus basses dissapeared, but also because it looked like he was "strangling a swan," when he played that thing.
I play a Mod Q5 and in my head and ears, it's very Lesh like - tonally speaking.
then several Alembics, leading to a few G&L 4's until Phil went all 6 string.
If you want that primordial sound - the easiest way forward would be obtaining a Jack Casady Epi and adding a Dark Star pickup.
The dominant sound of the 2nd half of the existence of the Grateful Dead (e.g. my era - '80-'95) was a Modulus Q6.
If you want that sound get a used Mod and an Eden Head with Eden Cabs.
Phil's current rig is all proprietary Meyer Cabs of different sizes with (as stated and shown previously here) a custom Alembic Omega or Ritter Red Dragon.
The Eye of Horus was widely criticized by many heads in the post-Jerry era because the tonal capacity for Phil to drop bombs on the same level as he could with the Modulus basses dissapeared, but also because it looked like he was "strangling a swan," when he played that thing.
I play a Mod Q5 and in my head and ears, it's very Lesh like - tonally speaking.
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yeah seems about right, i have my peavey GV which is a poor mans modulus, so thatll suffice for now I think
may pick up a casady if I can for the earlier stuff just bc
may pick up a casady if I can for the earlier stuff just bc
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I'd take a clue from the wall of sound era, and use a line array of boxes - 115's, stacked 30 feet tall or so oughtta do it.
If you're on a budget, get an Ibanez ASB140, install a Curtis Novak DarkStar pickup, T-I Jazz flats, and use a pick. You won't have all those knobs to obsess over as well.
well ill never dupe phils sound even with all the same gear but you usually model your tone after your idols so thats what I am going for, heck it seemed to work for mike gordon after all
That's totally cool. I've been playing pro for 40 years, and my sound just developed. I'm sure that in Phil's rig, I would sound like me.
My sound is always a compromise of what I like to hear, what the drummer hears best, and what the FOH wants. It's never perfect on stage, but I love to take a walk out front when we have an FOH person with golden ears, and a crap-load of quality subs.
I'd love to sound somewhere close to phil's tone from 1979. Can't get enough of this, starting around 2:18:00
I play a P bass fingerstyle so not sure how close I'll get. Don't think many people at the bar would even care.
It's fun to try and something cool will develop out of that.
I play a P bass fingerstyle so not sure how close I'll get. Don't think many people at the bar would even care.
It's fun to try and something cool will develop out of that.
Gordon consciously mimicked Lesh's choices in heads and cabs (but not other outboard gear).
He also opted for a Mod Q5 as opposed to a Q6.
When Phil switched to Meyer, so did Gordo.
I love the tones that both create, but Gordo experiments way more, goes deep and funky, pulls out the Akai Future Impact for synthy stuff and goes heavy duty in terms of effects without something like 50 different pedals and rack effects. Phil uses a very basic pedal board with roughly 6 pedals. Also, Phil "infers," cadence, Gordo co-creates and propels it.
yea in his gear run through and even in the latest bass player mag he says about how he loves phils tone. Gordo is my fave his new album is really great and obv I am a phish guy...
hes the reason I got the peavey GV.
hes the reason I got the peavey GV.
My TBX6 is the brother to PL and MG (1 of 4). Even with the GT pre, gobs of clean power and great speakers.. I NEVER sound/ sounded like either of them. You can spend tons of money and track down all of the same gear but in the end, the SOUND ultimately comes from you. not the gear.
mp40smg - not surprising to hear this.
For any fan of the GD or Phish, the sonic impact of both Phil and Gordo is way more than what bass, amp, pre-amp and effects they play, and the individual touch or mojo they bring to the collective sound of their respective bands. In both cases, the house engineers who mix these bands provide some of the best live audio a paying fan could possibly experience and broadcasting the tones each of these guys create with their own rigs adds yet another X factor of why someone in a studio, or on a smaller live performance stage might feel like they could never hope to get close to a real sonic emulation of these players.
Still, I feel that even with gear that's not totally close to the mark of what Phil and Mike play, if one spends half his time listening to GD and Phish and steps out to consciously play GD and or Phish music, your gonna sound more like your idol than not.
For any fan of the GD or Phish, the sonic impact of both Phil and Gordo is way more than what bass, amp, pre-amp and effects they play, and the individual touch or mojo they bring to the collective sound of their respective bands. In both cases, the house engineers who mix these bands provide some of the best live audio a paying fan could possibly experience and broadcasting the tones each of these guys create with their own rigs adds yet another X factor of why someone in a studio, or on a smaller live performance stage might feel like they could never hope to get close to a real sonic emulation of these players.
Still, I feel that even with gear that's not totally close to the mark of what Phil and Mike play, if one spends half his time listening to GD and Phish and steps out to consciously play GD and or Phish music, your gonna sound more like your idol than not.
Early-to-'80s Phil tone will be a challenge to capture. You are essentially balancing the wooly rubbery tone of a shortscale bass strung with flatwounds against an immensely full, high fidelity sound. You need all of the former and all of the latter, with enough clean headroom to go the distance.
I'm not sure a single bass will really capture all of that. Phil was faithful to his 'Big Brown' bass in the '70s, alongside the Alembic bass that shows up in the Grateful Dead Movie. He had an EB-3 in the very early '70s that had different pickups, and I think this is the bass on Live Dead. None of these were stock instruments! The Starfire 'Big Brown' was an epic modding platform that went through several different incarnations. Most importantly the pickups were swapped out, and filter-based preamps were also installed.
I think, in really broad terms, you want something with a pair of pickups that are quite far apart. If there is one common element of his '70s basses, this is it. Broadest of broad suggestion would be a Cort Rithimic. String it with flatwounds and play it with a heavy pick. Phil never played a Cort, but the bass does have widely stanced pickups that will cover a broad spectrum of frequencies and probably not colour the tone too much. The problem is that the guys demoing this bass on Youtube are all playing funky jazzy stuff, so it would be hard to prove that the Rithimic is the bass for the job. However a Rithimic into some sort of tasty preamp might get the job done?
I'm not sure a single bass will really capture all of that. Phil was faithful to his 'Big Brown' bass in the '70s, alongside the Alembic bass that shows up in the Grateful Dead Movie. He had an EB-3 in the very early '70s that had different pickups, and I think this is the bass on Live Dead. None of these were stock instruments! The Starfire 'Big Brown' was an epic modding platform that went through several different incarnations. Most importantly the pickups were swapped out, and filter-based preamps were also installed.
I think, in really broad terms, you want something with a pair of pickups that are quite far apart. If there is one common element of his '70s basses, this is it. Broadest of broad suggestion would be a Cort Rithimic. String it with flatwounds and play it with a heavy pick. Phil never played a Cort, but the bass does have widely stanced pickups that will cover a broad spectrum of frequencies and probably not colour the tone too much. The problem is that the guys demoing this bass on Youtube are all playing funky jazzy stuff, so it would be hard to prove that the Rithimic is the bass for the job. However a Rithimic into some sort of tasty preamp might get the job done?
Late to the party. But I hope ya got a Starfire. It will be a much better choice than the Casady. I don't think there any other good alternatives unless you want an Alembic. Which most of us do and which most of us cannot afford.
tried a starfire, the neck was way to skinny felt like a toothpick, Ill just get as close as I can with my p bass!
Don't sweat it. A Precision worked fine for John Kahn and Jerry didn't seem to mind it either.
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