• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Philosophy: Do I really NEED a FRETLESS bass?

J

JacoNOT

Mar 7, 2012
490
23
#1
I have limited funds, so this is a serious matter. I don't know enough yet to make a well informed decision, so can you guys help me decide whether a fretless bass is a worthwhile investment? I decided to buy a bass after suddenly "hearing" Jaco Pastorius playing on some songs I heard years ago - I just never noticed how important his bass part is.

I chose a decent fretted bass in my price range (on sale for $350 new) because I think it's too difficult to learn to play from scratch without benefit of frets, AND develop my ear for precise pitch/intonation at the same time. I figure, learn the basics on fretted and then transfer them to mastering the more difficult (more versatile) fretless bass.

So I'm a month in with my fretted bass, and found a deal on the fretless version of it (again $350). I placed the order online, knowing the item is out-of-stock until June - so I have time to think about whether to cancel or not...

I hear amazing fretless solo work on YouTube, etc. and I want to create that wide variety of sounds, but I'm not likely to ever be a SOLO bassist. And while I might learn to imitate some of Jaco's sound, I accept that I am JacoNOT (not even JacoLITE :D). My primary goal is to become proficient and clean for playing on demo tunes where the bass is one of six core instrument types:

- drums/percussion
- bass
- keyboard/piano
- synth, various applications
- electric guitar
- acoustic guitar
- (vocals, lead and backing)​

I used to compose from the top down, beginning with guitar and vocal. Now I'm composing from the bottom up, beginning with the rhythm section. So the bass will be featured prominently in some compositions, but in general I expect to treat it as a member of the rhythm section.

THE BIG QUESTION:
Will the uniqueness and versatility of FRETLESS be wasted (go unnoticed):
1) If the bass stays in it's traditional rhythm section role in the mix, and
2) If I'm merely proficient, not a standout fretless player?

My current fretted bass is already helping me hear and write musical passages that are very different from what I do on guitar. Do you guys think the extended capabilities of the fretless bass would be even more inspiring (it's almost a "vocal" sound sometimes)? Or am I just getting carried away with "buying basses"? :eek:

Thanks
 
#2
I say do it. I'm not Jaco, either. Not even close, but why should I be? I play my fretless because I enjoy playing fretless and I like the quality it adds to certain songs.

I don't think that it would wasted at all in the mix, unless you intentionally tried to make it blend in and sound like it wasn't one. And because it would most likely be inspiring to you, I think the issue of the bass being lost or wasted in the mix would become nonexistent, really.

Getting carried away with buying basses is part of the fun.
 
#3
I think you would have to experiment for yourself as to whether or not it improves the songs in question. But I will say (and not only am I no Jaco, I don't even play bass in a band regularly) BUT FRETLESS IS SOOOO MUCH FUN!!
 
#4
I'm one of those guys (or maybe the only one :)) that will only buy an instrument he has a gigging use for. Last summer I had weekly gigs with an acoustic trio and I had a blast playing my 5 string fretless. As soon as the gigs were over, the fretless started collecting dust. I got the itch to have one again and bought one a month or so back and now its collecting dust.

I can't bring myself to drag multiple basses to a gig. I like to play one instrument all night, either fretted or fretless. The gigs I have now are pretty much rock based with some slapping and the fretted bass seems to make the most sense there.

If I was playing at home for myself most of the time, I would just play any bass that I felt like, but most of my home playing in prep work for a gig and then I typically use the bass that I plan on using at the gig, which lately has been my 5-string fretted bass.
 
#6
Playing fretless is really fun (and challenging).
I sold my fretless stingray when I had been in a band for a year and had yet to be able to get it to work in the band context. So it was a $1000 sit on the couch bass.
I'll buy one again, but probably a cheaper fretless jazz.
I have a hard time owning an expensive bass that I dont gig or record with.
But I do like fretless!
OTOH I really need to get a double bass again. But the good sounding/playing URBs cost a good grand or two. Or much more.
Lemur music all the way.
 
#7
Id say pass on the fretless. Nothing in your op indicates a desire to play scales not doable on fretted bass. Nor that much interest in fretless tone other then liking jaco's bass playing either. Theres really very little music that requires fretless. The vast majority of music is done with fretted and lots of people have done jaco songs on fretted bass anyway.
 
#8
Fretless basses are fun to play and can get some unique sounds (mwah) that you cannot get from a fretted bass...with practice you can get a fretless to sound like a fretted bass but not the other way around.

Playing a fretless is fun and feels more "free" to me and I am not great at it.

It all comes down to whether you can afford it....if $350 is a stretch now don't do it......save up and do it if and when you can. Fretless basses are always out there.

If you have been playing a month or so you still have a lot to lean (we all do....I learn continuously) so don't sweat it.

If the $350 is cash you can spend without feeling the pinch etc....go for it.

As an aside....it is tougher to sell a fretless...keep that in mind

Good luck and have fun (that is the main thing!)
 
#11
You might find some helpful (or at least interesting info) here: Invalid Link Removed

I think it could be a good experience for you to have a fretless. It might open up new avenues of writing.

Some bass players just love the sound of fretless. Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones felt his bass sounded "right" when he either pulled out or filed down the beat up frets in his original bass (and "created" the fretless electric bass). I believe he played fretless on most or all of the Rolling Stones songs he played on.

 
#12
JacoNOT said:
I hear amazing fretless solo work on YouTube, etc. and I want to create that wide variety of sounds, but I'm not likely to ever be a SOLO bassist. And while I might learn to imitate some of Jaco's sound, I accept that I am JacoNOT (not even JacoLIGHT :D). My primary goal is to become proficient and clean for playing on demo tunes where the bass is one of six core instrument types:

- drums/percussion
- bass
- keyboard/piano
- synth, various applications
- electric guitar
- acoustic guitar
- (vocals, lead and backing)​

I used to compose from the top down, beginning with guitar and vocal. Now I'm composing from the bottom up, beginning with the rhythm section. So the bass will be featured prominently in some compositions, but in general I expect to treat it as a member of the rhythm section.

THE BIG QUESTION:
Will the uniqueness and verstility of FRETLESS be wasted (go unnoticed) if:
1) the bass stays in it's traditional rhythm section role in the mix, and
2) I'm merely proficient, not a standout fretless player?

My current fretted bass is already helping me hear and write musical passages that are very different from what I do on guitar. Do you guys think the extended capabilities of the fretless bass would be even more inspiring (it's almost a "vocal" sound sometimes)? Or am I just getting carried away with "buying basses"? :eek:

Thanks
Click to expand...

Well if you are composing and interested in what other instruments bring to the mix as well as vocal (I also play drums, guitar, vocals, blues harp, etc. studied piano for years...but still suck) You are on the right track with a fretless. As to whether one composes top down starting with melody and harmony or bottom up starting with groove (drums and bass), doesn't matter because both ways do the job and in the end BOTH sides have to be there if the composition is to work.

So (as James Brown used to do) you start a new song with groove ideas, then bass and drums (and rhythm guitar) are going to be the key. So what about fretless bass?

Well, I'm just finishing up some mods to my G&L L2500 pair of fretted-fretless basses so I'm sort of primed on the subject. These basses are identical except that one is fretless and one isn't. And what hit me over the head as I've been playing them and putting them through their range of tones to test the mods, is that while they are two separate instruments as a SET they comprise a single imaginary bass of immense range and power! Of course this is helped by the fact that G&Ls are the most versatile basses out there, but nevertheless all I could say is WOW! Goes from bright slap to amazing thump. From straight roots to expressive slides. It's like between the two of them it's ALL in there just waiting for me to pull it out!

So my question would be how can anyone go wrong with a nice fretted-fretless pair of basses?

There is something I hear all the time here on TB which is that when you don't play a bass for a while you MUST get rid of it!

What? I REALLY don't get this. Is storage space so valuable at one's house? Are you desperate for beer and pizza money? Does it just sit there in the case mocking you? Just what is the idea behind this? I haven't played my 8 string forever, but I'm sure not going to get rid of it. If I did you can be SURE I'd soon have some gigs where I absolutely HAD to have one again. And instead the one I got a bargain on that is paid for, just waiting for my call, then, I'd have to find another one, it wouldn't be cheap and I'd have to come up with the money all over again. Not my idea of the way to optimize gear buying.

So ask yourself: Should my closet have belts and suspenders hanging in there? No, you don't wear both at the same time, but with both in the closet you do cover all your "looks". A composer needs to be inspired, find new ideas. So sure, a little fretless riff or maybe a slap rhythm, or some other little pattern you discover on one of your instruments can easily trigger the idea for a whole new song. So why would you want to limit the things that can trigger you?

TB rule: You can never own too many basses (instruments)!
 
#13
JacoNOT said:
I have limited funds, so this is a serious matter. I don't know enough yet to make a well informed decision, so can you guys help me decide whether a fretless bass is a worthwhile investment? I decided to buy a bass after suddenly "hearing" Jaco Pastorius playing on some songs I heard years ago - I just never noticed how important his bass part is.

I chose a decent fretted bass in my price range (on sale for $350 new) because I think it's too difficult to learn to play from scratch without benefit of frets, AND develop my ear for precise pitch/intonation at the same time. I figure, learn the basics on fretted and then transfer them to mastering the more difficult (more versatile) fretless bass.

So I'm a month in with my fretted bass, and found a deal on the fretless version of it (again $350). I placed the order online, knowing the item is out-of-stock until June - so I have time to think about whether to cancel or not...

I hear amazing fretless solo work on YouTube, etc. and I want to create that wide variety of sounds, but I'm not likely to ever be a SOLO bassist. And while I might learn to imitate some of Jaco's sound, I accept that I am JacoNOT (not even JacoLIGHT :D). My primary goal is to become proficient and clean for playing on demo tunes where the bass is one of six core instrument types:

- drums/percussion
- bass
- keyboard/piano
- synth, various applications
- electric guitar
- acoustic guitar
- (vocals, lead and backing)​

I used to compose from the top down, beginning with guitar and vocal. Now I'm composing from the bottom up, beginning with the rhythm section. So the bass will be featured prominently in some compositions, but in general I expect to treat it as a member of the rhythm section.

THE BIG QUESTION:
Will the uniqueness and verstility of FRETLESS be wasted (go unnoticed) if:
1) the bass stays in it's traditional rhythm section role in the mix, and
2) I'm merely proficient, not a standout fretless player?

My current fretted bass is already helping me hear and write musical passages that are very different from what I do on guitar. Do you guys think the extended capabilities of the fretless bass would be even more inspiring (it's almost a "vocal" sound sometimes)? Or am I just getting carried away with "buying basses"? :eek:

Thanks
Click to expand...

Depends on where and for whom you play. Chances are, less than 5% of the audience will know or care what kind of bass you're playing. So buy one and play it wherever you're gigging if you want to.

zortation said:
You're second-guessing yourself. Get the fretless and use it for whatever role you want, because it will sound like a fretless no matter what you're playing and there are tons of guys out there just laying it down on one.
Click to expand...

This.
 
#14
OP Here.

I AM LOVING THESE REPLIES AND I THANK YOU GUYS VERY MUCH.

I DON'T WANT TO COMMENT ON ANY OF THEM YET BECAUSE I FEAR THAT MIGHT SHUT DOWN ADDITIONAL REPLIES. But I do want you to know that I'm reading every word at least twice and I very much appreciate having the benefit of your experiences and opinions.

Money's tight so this has been eating at me, like I can hear the clock ticking down to June 1...:hmm:
 
#15
coyote1 said:
Lots of "regular songs" are dependent on fretless. Think of BadCo. Feel Like Makin' Love.

A bassist really ought be proficient on fretless IMO.
Click to expand...

Nah....not dependent....to be honest I never knew that was played on a fretless......I play that on a fretted...most popular music does not use a fretless.

I hear fretless more in commercials than anywhere else.....other than jazz etc.
 
#19
If you can afford it, get it.

Fretless bass is a wonderful sound, but it's worth getting someone who knows what they're doing to have a look at the bass, do a setup, and make sure your strings are appropriate for what you're trying to achieve. I mucked around on a fretless for months trying to work out why I wasn't getting a Jaco 'mwah' - turns out the strings were too dull and too high, and I was getting more of a flatwound thump than anything.

Anyway, fretless can add something special to a lot of tunes, especially ballads (for some reason I've got that Dream Theatre track in my head) and acoustic tracks (think Joni Mitchell). Also great for bouncy walking bass and stuff. And, of course, solo work.

Check out Gary Willis, Tony Franklin, Jaco's work with Joni Mitchell (IMO his best playing), and for something different check out Juan Alderete of The Mars Volta - his playing on 'The Widow' really stands out.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back