Philosophy: Do I really NEED a FRETLESS bass?

[coyote1]

I would never play a fretless without lines, it's ridiculous to expect someone to never look at their neck when they play (I have seen the best bassists in the world do it), and I always have to laugh when someone thinks any of this stuff relates to professionalism.

Find me one double bassist, cellist, violist, or violinist in any orchestra that is looking at their fingerboard while playing. Find me one pit orchestra bassist or guitarist that is looking at the fingerboard of their instrument while performing a show. Do trombonists look at how far they've moved the slide to determine what note they are playing?

Currently I'm making a bit of a push to get very familiar with my Conklin GT7 as a two-handed tapping instrument. I'm using the RealBook (standard G clef version), working my way through the chords page after page. And trying to gradually work in chords, chord melodies, and straight melodies with my right hand while improvising basslines on those chords with the left. It would not be possible to do that while looking at the fingerboard.

Obviously, if you are performing the same dozen songs at every gig you need not look at a page of music. But bear this in mind the next time you complain that your band can't get bookings and that those bar gigs ain't paying much: If you could read, your chances of getting good-paying work would immediately soar. Becoming dependent upon gazing at the fingerboard eliminates that possibility.

 

[caeman]

Coyote, show me a double bassist, cellist or violinist that holds their instrument the way an bass player does. They are two different worlds.

Because of how a cello is held, it is difficult to even try and look at the fret board. I try, but it hurts my neck. You have to learn muscle memory because that is the only way it can be done without injuring yourself. A fiddle, by a similar oddity, being held under the chin, makes one cross-eyed to try and look at the fret board.

So, can we please compare apples to apples?

Classical guitarists, the really good ones, look at their fret boards. I've watched them. They do it. Do they STARE at it? No. But they look.

Oh, and I have seen quite a few double basses with cheat marks on the side of the neck.

 

[khutch]

To the OP I would say that I don't know if you need a fretless, bit I do!

At least that is what I am going to tell the wife when I find one I like....

I'm pretty sure I see the string players in highly regarded orchestras glancing at their fingerboard occasionally. I don't know why, they do it so infrequently that they certainly do not rely on this to position their fingers correctly. What good would it do them, their fingerboards are relatively featureless? Besides, they finger notes differently depending on what key they are in, whether they are playing solo or in an ensemble, and whether the ensemble is strictly other strings or mixed instruments. A fretless stringed instrument frees you from the compromises of an even tempered tuning without preventing you from playing with even tempered instruments when required.

But doing that requires intense devotion to your craft, hours of practice daily. Professional musicians can and must do that. Electrical engineers who play bass in a worship band once a month or so cannot. So I am not ashamed to look at my fingerboard when I need to. I can do that, follow the music, and learn to keep an eye on the director and other musicians at critical times more or less simultaneously. It is one area where human beings can actually multi-task, probably because it is really just different aspects of a single task.

Ken

 

[coyote1]

Occasional glance. Perhaps.

I used to make my living as a drummer, and I still do drumset at a half-dozen pit orchestra gigs annually. None of us gets the music til we arrive to play the show. Ten minutes discussion and note-taking as we listen to the conductor while he/she briefly reviews the more technical sections with us. From there, we are expected to provide a solid professional underpinning for the performers onstage. I ain't looking at my cymbals during that time; I'm looking strictly at the dots on the page and at the conductor. There's no way anyone else in the orchestra is looking at their instruments in that scenario either.

The player who can't not look at his fingerboard couldn't possibly survive that.

I'm pretty sure I see the string players in highly regarded orchestras glancing at their fingerboard occasionally. I don't know why, they do it so infrequently that they certainly do not rely on this to position their fingers correctly. What good would it do them, their fingerboards are relatively featureless? Besides, they finger notes differently depending on what key they are in, whether they are playing solo or in an ensemble, and whether the ensemble is strictly other strings or mixed instruments. A fretless stringed instrument frees you from the compromises of an even tempered tuning without preventing you from playing with even tempered instruments when required.

But doing that requires intense devotion to your craft, hours of practice daily. Professional musicians can and must do that. Electrical engineers who play bass in a worship band once a month or so cannot. So I am not ashamed to look at my fingerboard when I need to. I can do that, follow the music, and learn to keep an eye on the director and other musicians at critical times more or less simultaneously. It is one area where human beings can actually multi-task, probably because it is really just different aspects of a single task.

Ken

 

[caeman]

Wait...you don't have your music memorized? Real pros have it all memorized.

I was in concert band. I memorized everything, despite being able to have a music stand in front of me.

 

[lonote]

I am not a virtuoso, I look at the fingerboard and I simply cannot play lined fretless basses. I have owned 2 of them, a Peavey Foundation and a USA Hamer 2TEK CruiseBass (which I still have). I have owned 3 Fender unlined fretless (MIJ) Jazz Basses. I got my first unlined Jazz on a Tuesday and played it all night on a gig that Friday. You just have to develop your ear and work intensely on your intonation. Lined fretlesses confuse the daylights out of me. I worry about the lines instead of the notes...I play with my eyes instead of my ears. I think you should get a fretless and play it for a while. IMO, you can do more with a fretless than a fretted. Good luck in your quest!

 

[Mystic Michael]

Allow me to clear up a few apparent misconceptions for the OP:

Another $350 for a fretless is hardly a huge outpouring of cash. Even if money is tight, budget and save for it if you must, because yes, owning and playing a fretless can significantly expand your range of musicianship as a bassist. And no, it's NOT mostly for soloing. Jaco himself played in the pocket a lot of the time, in addition to his solos.

The fretless bass doesn't "speak" to everyone, not by a longshot. If you hear the call of the fretless, then you've been called to play it. It's that simple.

Go for it!

MM

 

[throughthefire]

The fretless bass doesn't "speak" to everyone, not by a longshot. If you hear the call of the fretless, then you've been called to play it. It's that simple.

+1

...and I *don't* have the call, and *don't* play or own a fretless bass

If you feel you need one, go for it. As long as all your other bills are paid and it's spare cash, you won't regret it - you've heard the call!

Pete.

 

[Matthijs]

Here's another option: sell the fretted and buy a 600$fretless.

There's not much you can't do with a fretless and you can do so much more than a fretted.

On the lines issue: IME you need more help on a fretless compared to a DB, cello or trombone because there are fewer physical reference points. For most people lines are not nescessary, because side dots are help enough and it can be impractical to have to look at the the lines when your standing up. I myself can hardly see the front of my fretboard when I'm standing.

 

[lonote]

Here's another option: sell the fretted and buy a 600$fretless.

There's not much you can't do with a fretless and you can do so much more than a fretted.

On the lines issue: IME you need more help on a fretless compared to a DB, cello or trombone because there are fewer physical reference points. For most people lines are not nescessary, because side dots are help enough and it can be impractical to have to look at the the lines when your standing up. I myself can hardly see the front of my fretboard when I'm standing.

The dots are all I need. That might be because I played unlined for seven years or so before I picked up my first lined fretless. Either way, the fretless is fun to play and very versatile.

 

[SantiagoGT15]

Before we continue, I love to play fretless, (i still like fretted but only every now and then) I would really love to play fretless full time, but my needs are different, I play at church and I usually need.something to cut thru, and fretless just doesn't do it, even if I boost and play with all the knobs, it won't cut...maybe I need another fretless just to be sure...

And yes: playing fretless has given me a new perspective in tone and playing style, I find myself.preferring a good fretless-y tone, giving a really good thump, rather than slapping away

Plus I am really starting to identify tones chords and everything by ear...a lot more easier

Oh and btw I play unlined 24ish position(?) I just try to avoid playing over the 12th position, my fat fingers tend to fail me...

So yeah if you like fretless get a fretless

 

[Sketchy]

I'd say unless you do chords occasionally (which are a real pain on the fretless) I would say get the fretless. They're great fun and you get used to them pretty quick (or at least I did). Sometimes adding smooth slides to stuff just works so well, and I do find my fretless to be more expressive than either of my fretted basses.

But yeah, if you do play chordy things more than just rarely, then go for a fretted.

 

[cchorney]

OP, I have both fretted and fretless basses, and on my fretless basses, I have both lined and unlined. I learned on a fretted bass, and its fretted for the purpose of being more accurate an instrument to play - more precise, if you will. As in, that's why Fender named the Precision that - because the frets made it easier to play the notes more precisely than on a fretless. However, what the frets giveth, the frets also taketh away. The fretless gives you more tonal options and some functional ones as well, like being able to offset your notes on a string that is out of tune so your played notes will be in tune even if the string isn't.

It takes more practice to be able to play a fretless well, a lot more if there are no lines and a lot more beyond that to play a fretless with no lines OR side dots.

Intonation problems will spring up on a fretless the moment you let your focus slide, which tends to be when you are getting tired or trying to tell the drummer to change the tempo or the guitarist to turn down (again).

Do you NEED a fretless? No. Should you get one? Maybe, if it interests you, or if it will make you play more. Going thru the learning curve a fretless requires (oh yes, there is a learning curve) will make you a more proficient bass player, and will give you more tonal options. Fretted or fretless? Your call. Score a used one of which ever and you can always sell it for close to what you paid if you decide it isn't for you.

And to coyote1: Being a bass player and being a professional musician who's primary instrument is the bass are two different worlds. I can't sight read and don't have the time to master that skill. I look at my fret board when I need to but most of the time don't need to, and I don't have the time to improve that skill either. Neither of these "shortcomings" would be acceptable in an orchestra setting. But in the world I play in, my skill level is plenty fine. If I hit the lottery and can quit my job maybe I have the time to sharpen my skills to that level but its not a priority to me, the people I play with, or the audiences that come to see us.

 

[JimmyM]

Find me one double bassist, cellist, violist, or violinist in any orchestra that is looking at their fingerboard while playing. Find me one pit orchestra bassist or guitarist that is looking at the fingerboard of their instrument while performing a show. Do trombonists look at how far they've moved the slide to determine what note they are playing?
Who cares? ;)

[quote]Currently I'm making a bit of a push to get very familiar with my Conklin GT7 as a two-handed tapping instrument. I'm using the RealBook (standard G clef version), working my way through the chords page after page. And trying to gradually work in chords, chord melodies, and straight melodies with my right hand while improvising basslines on those chords with the left. It would not be possible to do that while looking at the fingerboard.

Obviously, if you are performing the same dozen songs at every gig you need not look at a page of music. But bear this in mind the next time you complain that your band can't get bookings and that those bar gigs ain't paying much: If you could read, your chances of getting good-paying work would immediately soar. Becoming dependent upon gazing at the fingerboard eliminates that possibility.[/QUOTE]
Oh, gee, I wish I could read. Then I wouldn't feel so out of place on all these reading gigs at arenas and large theaters I've been getting for the last 15-16 years.

 

[caeman]

Jimmy....

Don't let the troll pull you into his world....



Keep the higher ground.

 

[JimmyM]

The higher ground is so not me But thanks, caeman!

 

[khutch]

Classical guitarists, the really good ones, look at their fret boards.

I happen to have a copy of "Bach: The Four Lute Suites" performed by John Williams (1975 CBS Masterworks Edition) on my desk here at work and I am listening to it as I type. The cover of the CD has a photo that one would presume Mr. Williams chose himself or at a minimum blessed for this use. I kid you not, it shows him looking down at his hands as he plays. I feel no shame for doing what John Williams does!

I used to make my living as a drummer,

So you are/were a pro and I agree that with enough practice you won't need to look at your fingerboard. Oh, but wait drums don't have them, do they? When I played clarinet in HS and college bands I never looked at my fingers either, absolutely no need. Even beginning clarinetists don't because it simply does not help. Many/most of us are not pros and a bass is not a clarinet.

Now I have only gotten back into bass playing about nine months ago after a long hiatus. I am appalled sometimes at how inaccurate my fretting is, still. Whether I ever actually attain enough skill to play a fretless in public or not, I believe that it will help me improve my fretted playing at least. So if you need a reason to get, and keep, a fretless bass, consider that possibility.

Ken

 

[caeman]

John Williams staring at his guitar's fret board


Neither of these guitarists seem to show any shame at staring at their fret boards. Both are consumate professionals and one their skills are renowned. So, the next time I have to arpeggiate an Am9, I will happily look at my bass' fret board.

 

[Toastfuzz]

I was once in your shoes, and find myself in your shoes about every 6 months, where I get an itch to try a fretless. Usually its finding a nice bass for sale in my price range that makes me want to take the plunge. But these days I find myself without enough hours in a day to do all I want to do, and I have 4 basses already, and I feel like my time is better spent improving my general bass technique or writing songs or working on guitar chops than adjusting to the fretless.

I'm not advising you against it but try to decide whether you want it for the "novelty" factor or if you actually have a want/need to play fretless.

 

[ole Jason]

As mentioned above, fretless electric bass doesn't have the physical reference points one would find on a double bass, cello, etc. Lines are a matter of personal taste but playing in tune is 100% necessary. If it takes lines to get your muscle memory there then use lines. Believe me, as long as your playing is on point NO ONE, outside of snobby bassists, will ever even mention or think about the lines.

Oh... and here is one of the top legit bassists in the world looking at his hands while playing. Oh yeah... he also has dots on the fingerboard, as does Edgar Meyer.