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Philosophy: Do I really NEED a FRETLESS bass?

#61
I play fretless about 90% of the time and read music for nearly 100% of the gigs I do. Yea, I look. So what? But, it should be stated that muscle memory, periphial vision, and ears all work for the times when the notes are coming at you so fast you can't look. Its a combination of things. Basically, I try not to look if it means I'll lose my place on the page, and I'll look if it means I'll be closer in tune. Whatever helps make the best music.
 
#62
Look - I ain't taking the Jeff Berlin line that every bass player in the world must read. All I'm saying is that you become what you practice, and if you're always looking at the fingerboard then it will ****** development of reading skills. BTW, it also doesn't look all that awesome onstage - but that's just my opinion.

JimmyM said:
Oh, gee, I wish I could read. Then I wouldn't feel so out of place on all these reading gigs at arenas and large theaters I've been getting for the last 15-16 years.
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caeman said:
Jimmy....
Don't let the troll pull you into his world....
:)
Keep the higher ground.
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"OMG he's saying we can become better at what we do if we practice something! HOW DARE HE!!" lol

No doubt there have already been complaints to the mods about my posting my opinion on reliance on fretlines on a fretless :eek:


PS - the above starred-out word is a real word, used in a real adult context. Yet it has to be starred-out... it fascinates me that a MUSIC site, of all places, stars out that word given how it is common music usage for "slow the tempo". What a world.
 
#63
ole Jason said:
As mentioned above, fretless electric bass doesn't have the physical reference points one would find on a double bass, cello, etc. Lines are a matter of personal taste but playing in tune is 100% necessary. If it takes lines to get your muscle memory there then use lines. Believe me, as long as your playing is on point NO ONE, outside of snobby bassists, will ever even mention or think about the lines.

Oh... and here is one of the top legit bassists in the world looking at his hands while playing. Oh yeah... he also has dots on the fingerboard, as does Edgar Meyer.

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This is the point about reference marks that I was going to make since I started playing on a double bass. A double bass is made in such a way there are physical reference points (hand positions) you are supposed to use to find your way around. So indeed marks on the upright neck are "cheating" in a sense.

A fretless guitar on the other hand has a longer neck even though the scale is shorter and is held differently and the physical references just aren't there. which is why the side markers on the neck are important. You don't STARE at them, of course, but a quick glance does give you a reference point to start from before your ears can hear anything. This is why I stressed nice, visible, correctly placed, side markers are important.

On the other hand while fretlines can help a beginner playing seated, standing you can't see them anyway, so then they become a matter of taste and appearance. Personally, I love the "blank plank" LOOK of a fretless bass, and in my experience, when I play my lined basses almost nobody even notices it's a fretless. So as other's have said, eventually lines or no lines are mostly a matter of your personal taste.
 
#67
bassbenj said:
This is the point about reference marks that I was going to make since I started playing on a double bass. A double bass is made in such a way there are physical reference points (hand positions) you are supposed to use to find your way around. So indeed marks on the upright neck are "cheating" in a sense.

A fretless guitar on the other hand has a longer neck even though the scale is shorter and is held differently and the physical references just aren't there. which is why the side markers on the neck are important. You don't STARE at them, of course, but a quick glance does give you a reference point to start from before your ears can hear anything. This is why I stressed nice, visible, correctly placed, side markers are important.
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Interestingly enough the one area of the DB where you start losing solid reference points is up above the D harmonic on the G. It's becoming increasingly common to see professional players with dots up in this area. Obviously, people like Rinat and Edgar Meyer don't need dots but they probably just think it's nice to have them just in case or whatever.

It doesn't really bother me either way. Do what you gotta do to sound your best.
 
#68
Gary Willis looks at his bass neck a lot of the time and if it's ok for him then it's ok for me!

I'd say unless you are making pop music teenage videos then NO ONE cares whether you're looking at you bass neck or not.

Find the fretless bass with the right SOUND and do not expends ANY energy worrying about the lines. Put all that thought towards practice and moving forward to make MUSIC on your new bass.
 
#70
No! I was an upright bass major in college and have played fretless for decades and I can honestly say that as much as I like having one....it has NEVER been necessary. I have been mainly playing in 10 pc horn bands and acoustic trios where I sing and there are just too too many pitch variables in my playing situations for me to focus on constantly playing in tune. If there were not horns or if I did not have to sing....I would probably use it a lot more....but for me ..... it has never been a necessity....now playing and having an upright is totally different story.
 
#74
Do you NEED it? I'd say no. Most of modern musicdom has gotten along just fine.. If you want to experiment then by all means...go for it! Just be sure to get a generous return policy, which is easy.

Every time I get the notion and courage to get one I either sell it or return it due to lack of patience and skill to keep intonation. I do love the sound though.

Funny thing is, some people think my fretted Peavey foundation with flats sounds like a fretless.
 
#77
There seem to be some misconceptions floating around about the virtue of fret lines and whether "real" musicians look at the fingerboard while playing.

So - just FYI.

Great musicians look at the board, even when they are reading sometimes. Jaco does it on almost every video on youtube. go watch, I will wait here till you are done.

The great classical virtuoso bassist Edgar Meyer had position markers put on his bass so he could have a quick visual reference as to his position on the board. And he uses it from time to time if you have ever seen him play.

I recently worked with Lynn Harrell, who not only used a mini tuner while playing, but also frequently looked at the fingerboard while playing to make sure he was spot on. If these guys do it, why question? If it helps, whats the issue?

I have been playing for almost 40 years now, and while I think I am pretty good at it, I am just a working player. But I and many of my peers have played fretless and Upright bass with and without conductors, in classical, pop, and jazz venues, with and without sheet music, and I can tell you that every great player I have ever seen or worked with has sighted the board from time to time to either check hand shape or to make sure they were in the right place on the board. It is normal and healthy to do so. It is not healthy to depend on this as your only reference, but it can help, especially in loud venues when you have trouble hearing yourself.

For goodness sake folks - if it helps you play in tune - why not use it? I agree with Lee Sklar on this one. ANYTHING that helps you play the note on time and in tune is not cheating.
 
#78
caeman said:
At a local music store, Norm Stockton and Frank Russell were giving a chat on bass playing, as well as demonstrating bass playing. They looked at their fret boards. I watched these two play for an hour and it was amazing stuff. I figure if these working professional look at their fret boards, then a schlep like me can look at his fret board.
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funny Caeman...and I agree...:D
 
#79
khutch said:
But doing that requires intense devotion to your craft, hours of practice daily. Professional musicians can and must do that. Electrical engineers who play bass in a worship band once a month or so cannot. So I am not ashamed to look at my fingerboard when I need to. I can do that, follow the music, and learn to keep an eye on the director and other musicians at critical times more or less simultaneously. It is one area where human beings can actually multi-task, probably because it is really just different aspects of a single task.

Ken
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Ken...as a person with an Industrial Engineering degree and who plays in a worship band I agree!

I am not a paid professional...do I wish I was better at my craft? you bettcha! Do I improve? Yup!

Will I ever be good enough to earn a living at playing bass..NOPE! do I care (well....sorta!). :D

I enjoy playing and like you, can do all those things...not as good as many but better than some.....
 
#80
If you love the sound, get one and try it.
Many years ago I got a fretless, enjoyed it but it just wasn't right for me.
Then about 3 years ago I got a fretless, and now I play fretless about 90% of the time. It is my voice in the bass world.

If you don't like it - you can sell it and recoup your money (especially if you buy used).

And don't worry about the folks who make a big deal out of lines or no lines. Neither will ruin you as a player, or make you (by themselves) a great player.
Play music. Find your voice. And be authentically you.
 

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