Phrases bassists should stop using immediately

[Brad Johnson]

Poor thing must need a hug.........

Edited to add: I think that your issues with these phrases comes from your misunderstanding of these phrases when used by other bassists. For example, "locking in with the drummer" doesn't necessarily mean "goosestepping" with the drummer. It does, however, mean being aware of the beat and hitting it at key points to keep the music flowing. How about "overplaying is bad?" Well, it is bad, but every song and every band is different, so "overplaying" is different in every song. Ever heard Wooten play with a band, not soloing? He knows how to reign in his playing in order to play basslines that fit the music. He doesn't double-thump every note just because he can.

Most bassists understand these types of generalizations and don't need them explained in detail every time they are used.

Yep, that would be my understanding of locking in too.

 

[Matthew Bryson]

It unfortunate that someone with his alleged experience can't convey his thoughts without the attitude. This thread COULD have been an interesting dialouge if old Jimbo had been willing to actually discuss his thoughts, rather than making sensational statements and then virtually daring anyone to disagree with him.

Well, maybe he's trying to take over for Jeff Berlin now that Steve Bailey put Jeff in his place, and Jeff has vowed to be a less confrontational writer. Somebody has to carry on the tradition...

 

[Poop-Loops]

Who says you get a choice?

Ok, by that I mean why do groove and melody get to be separate? Great musicians (not just bass players) play melodically and with great groove.

Of course. But groove is primarily rythm. That's why even on here I've seen advice of grooving even to the root or root 5. You don't need melody to be groovey.

And all I'm saying is I don't want to be groovey when I play melodic lines.

I've seen plenty of people playing melodic basslines and posting the video here and people saying "that wasn't groovey". O rly?

It just gets on my nerves.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yeah, you're wrong. There's a reason why those phrases are cliches. It's that, in most cases, they are true. And I've never heard anyone say that locking in with the drummer means only playing with the drums.

Now if I could just get everyone to stop saying, "Sweeeeet!"

Sweee... doh!

I mean +1

 

[Brad Johnson]

Munji, this may surprise you, but not one person I have ever worked for has ever told me to lock in with the drums. I have been told a number of times that they want me to groove, and when they want you to groove, you groove. But if left to my own devices, I'll groove or not groove depending on the music I'm playing.

Also, I'm not sure what you meant by your comment about Jeff Berlin. Are you relating saying what you want to fame level, like if I'm not as popular as Jeff Berlin I shouldn't say anything? OK, let's shut down Talkbass then, because none of us on here as as famous as he is.

Also, let's not forget that before Jeff moved to Clearwater, he was a session guy and played many many many gigs where he had to take orders.

Boy, bass players sure are a whiny lot. Say a couple things to challenge a few perceptions and open a few minds and they come out en masse to let you know how much they want to stay in their little boxes.

Maybe they don't tell you because you're already doing it. I know that's true in my case.

As far as whiny, reference the first post... it could easily be construed as such.

 

[Josh Ryan]

I'm having one now.

...and anyone who wants to challenge that should shut their yap and get bent, you morons.

You bastard!!!

 

[lump]

And all I'm saying is I don't want to be groovey when I play melodic lines.

Your audience might prefer otherwise.

 

[Brad Johnson]

If I ever see someone grooving to Hallowed Be They Name or Master of Puppets, I'm going to kill them with my bear hands.

Link Removed

Rawr.

I'm not a groovey person and don't want to be. I want my bass playing to be melodic. That's a lot more interesting to me.



Scary, isn't it?

Then you don't understand what grooving means.

 

[Sundogue]

Of course. But groove is primarily rythm. That's why even on here I've seen advice of grooving even to the root or root 5. You don't need melody to be groovey.

And all I'm saying is I don't want to be groovey when I play melodic lines.

I've seen plenty of people playing melodic basslines and posting the video here and people saying "that wasn't groovey". O rly?

It just gets on my nerves.

Well, if it was meant to be melodic, and people were expecting it to groove and they didn't feel it did, why would it get on your nerves if it wasn't your intention in the first place?

I would think it would get on your nerves if you intended it to groove, and they said it didn't.

Besides, what about anything melodic can't still groove? To me, groove is about fitting the context of the song, so if someone is playing melodic and it ain't groovin', then perhaps they are just (dare I say) overplaying?

 

[Josh Ryan]

Then you don't understand what grooving means.

I think the issue here is that he (JimmyM) was using a very particular definition of what grooving means, and everyone else is not. I can certainly see where the confusion came in, but OTOH it isn't that hard to see what's going on as hsi original post defined it as he sees it fairly well.

 

[Brad Johnson]

He's just venting a frustration, supposedly to an audience of peers that may have an understanding of what he's saying. Far worse than that somewhat rough statement is the reception he got here at tb for this thread.

It's cool to vent but come on, some of the stuff is childish. The dare? I'd tell him to his face just because of it, not because I believe it, rather the statement pretty much begs for it. What would happen if I did?


Exactly.




The reception hardly looks rough to me, considering how angry the post is. People disagreed and told him so. If they did it by calling it ******** or daring him to respond, I might see your point.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I think the issue here is that he (JimmyM) was using a very particular definition of what grooving means, and everyone else is not. I can certainly see where the confusion came in, but OTOH it isn't that hard to see what's going on as hsi original post defined it as he sees it fairly well.

Then instead of a shotgun approach he could've more specific. He made it sound like the term in and of itself was silly. It isn't... and people told him so.

Rocco Prestia locks in with the drummer. The problem being...?

I went back to reread the original post: "The bass has to lock in with the drummer." Get real! First off, so many bassists misinterpret this as only playing when the bass drum plays. Second, maybe I don't feel like goosestepping in formation with the drummer. Maybe I feel like playing behind the beat, or pulling it a little. Or maybe I feel like ignoring the drummer and playing something completely different than him. Tell me I have to lock in with the drummer and I will tell you to get bent".

Let's see...
Bassists misinterpret what it means... followed by maybe he doesn't want to goosestep. Who said he had to, the people who misinterpret it? He continues based on the misinterpretation... as if he too misinterprets it

Newsflash: Playing behind or ahead of the beat can still be a lock with the drummer. He doesn't get that?

The "get bent" part just sounds angry, doesn't it? Who are these people who are telling people to lock in anyway... and why does he care?

Bad gig???

 

[Brad Johnson]

Of course. But groove is primarily rythm. That's why even on here I've seen advice of grooving even to the root or root 5. You don't need melody to be groovey.

And all I'm saying is I don't want to be groovey when I play melodic lines.

I've seen plenty of people playing melodic basslines and posting the video here and people saying "that wasn't groovey". O rly?

It just gets on my nerves.

Groove is primarily people playing together. You can groove in 7/4 switching to 6/8 with a melodic bassist.

As far as what people say about videos, that bothers you because their opinions are so important to you or what?

Some people wouldn't know a groove if it bit them in the ass. Sucks to be them. Next.

 

[SuperDuck]

I am going to start the Brad Johnson fan club.

 

[Josh Ryan]

@ Brad - thing is, he wasn't angry at YOU.

I guess I just read it differently. Oh well.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Groove is primarily people playing together. You can groove in 7/4 switching to 6/8 with a melodic bassist.

As far as what people say about videos, that bothers you because their opinions are so important to you or what?

Some people wouldn't know a groove if it bit them in the ass. Sucks to be them. Next.

So that's how it is?

First I've always heard "locking in with the drummer" was playing when he's playing. Now it's "no no... it just means play in time." Wow, really? I always thought I was supposed to play my own thing at random tempos while the rest of the band does the same.

Now it's "uh no... grooving isn't getting people dancing through the rythm you're playing. It just means play in time!" Really? So now being reduntant is the cool new fad?

Your audience might prefer otherwise.

I love it when people say this. This has gone from "WHY WOULD YOU PLAY BUSY BASS LINES ON 'MY GIRL'????" to things like this.

For some crazy reason people assume that I'm going to go to a soul concert and start playing metal or decide that soloing over "My Girl" is a good idea, just because I want to be melodic. It's astounding. I want to know if this extends to other areas of your life. Do you go to a post office and order a hamburger? No? Why not? Because the post office doesn't serve hamburgers? Oh. So, why can't I pick my audience by playing at venues that primarily or only play the style of music I want to play?

What? I might not get into those venues? Well tough. I don't settle for less when I'm just playing for fun.

Well, if it was meant to be melodic, and people were expecting it to groove and they didn't feel it did, why would it get on your nerves if it wasn't your intention in the first place?

Because people always expect it to groove. That's my whole problem.

I would think it would get on your nerves if you intended it to groove, and they said it didn't.

Nobody said it would. It was "here's my video".

Besides, what about anything melodic can't still groove? To me, groove is about fitting the context of the song, so if someone is playing melodic and it ain't groovin', then perhaps they are just (dare I say) overplaying?

So is guitar about grooving too? Flute? Keyboards? Synths?

If it's all in the context of the song, then why even make up a term for it?

What if you're playing a solo bass part. Then anything is in the context of the song, because that's all the song is. How do you define grooving then?

 

[Sundogue]

So that's how it is?


If it's all in the context of the song, then why even make up a term for it?

What if you're playing a solo bass part. Then anything is in the context of the song, because that's all the song is. How do you define grooving then?

If you aren't playing with the rest of the band within the context of the song, there won't be a groove...be it death metal, jazz, blues, rock or classical.

I didn't say groovy, as if it were relegated to a particular musical style (or time period). I said groove. Which is to say "feel". Any style of music with no feel, sucks...be it melodic bass lines, lead solos, rhythm, etc. If you are playing melodic bass lines and they don't groove, then your playing has no feeling, or it is outside the context of the song...and inappropriate. Overplaying perhaps?

Now, some bass players can only play simple rhythm and still not groove. It's not about complexity or speed, it's about whether or not your playing is grooving within the context of the song and the players you are playing with. Very fast, melodic lines should still be grooving with the rest of the song and players.

And yes, "in the groove" is not a term exclusive to bass players. I often tell my guitarist after a great lead he's played, that he was really in the "groove" on that one.

 

[lump]

I love it when people say this. This has gone from "WHY WOULD YOU PLAY BUSY BASS LINES ON 'MY GIRL'????" to things like this.

For some crazy reason people assume that I'm going to go to a soul concert and start playing metal or decide that soloing over "My Girl" is a good idea, just because I want to be melodic. It's astounding. I want to know if this extends to other areas of your life. Do you go to a post office and order a hamburger? No? Why not? Because the post office doesn't serve hamburgers? Oh. So, why can't I pick my audience by playing at venues that primarily or only play the style of music I want to play?

What? I might not get into those venues? Well tough. I don't settle for less when I'm just playing for fun.

Because people always expect it to groove. That's my whole problem.

LOL. You're right--I hate it when an audience expects you to conform to the conventions of Western music. Blaze your own trail; be your own man. I'm sure you'll have no problem finding an audience that appreciates unmetered wankery. You might not want to quit your day job just yet though.

 

[Pacman]

Funny you bring up "My Girl". Those of you who'd rather be melodic than groove need to go listen to a LOT of Jamerson. Tell me he's not melodic, or busy, or whatever. But he's always groovin!

 

[DigthemLows]

Here's a broad generalization for you, this is the single silliest thing I've read on talkbass:



Let's see, just off the top o' my bigfat head...
PAUL McCARTNEY
Chris Squier
Dave Pegg
Sara Lee
Sting
Phil Lynott
Geezer Butler
Rick Danko
Bernard Edwards
Graham Maby
Mike Gordon
Lemmy Kilmeister
Tina Weymouth
Jack Bruce
Carol Kaye
Steve Swallow
Phil Lesh

Let me know when I get to a "punk" player oh wise one...

The ability/apparent need for posters here to stuff their feet down their own throats will NEVER cease to amaze me. No one here knows better than anybody else. Unless, of course, you are just a fan of massively ignorant/pointlessly intolerant generalizations and are still too ignorant/intolerant to even realize you are being ignorant/intolerant.

Enjoy the learning curve of life, you have a LONG way to go to redeem yourself from the above kind of unmitigated dopery.

There is no right way, there is no wrong way. To claim otherwise is brazenly foolish.

Big, you are my online hero!.......

Seems people feel the need to confine themselves to the instrument rather than to the music....Bass has it's part when playing a cover of someone elses playing, but if it's your song, play what you want with what you want........no one has to like it right? unless it's not art??