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Pick Downstrokes vs. Down/Up---Can You Tell?

Which track was done with all pick downstrokes

  • A

    Votes: 59 18.4%
  • B

    Votes: 207 64.7%
  • Carrots

    Votes: 54 16.9%

  • Total voters
    320
  • Poll closed .
Apr 11, 2005
127,257
125,180
Plymouth NC
Disclosures
Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG



So this has been an ongoing controversy on Talkbass for a while now. People on here, especially those who play rock styles, say that downstrokes with a pick always sound different and more consistent than strict down/up. I say that's a load of crap, as I believe that if you want your down/up picking to sound more consistent, you need to practice till you can't tell the difference, and you'll make it happen if you practice it enough. I also consider straight downpicking at medium tempos and faster to be very detrimental to the health of your picking hand. I can't do it longer than 30 seconds at a time before my hand starts to feel like it's going to fall off. Best I can do with all downstrokes is a walking jazz line with everything hitting on the beat, and even those get challenging when the tempo picks up. Maybe when I was 20 or 30 I could do it. Wish I still could. It certainly looks much cooler onstage. But since 40 came and went, those days are long over.

And still, people argue with me about it, and dare I say, some people who should know better. Folks, you can do anything with practice. That's all it takes. If you can do upstrokes at all, you can do it. And if you can't do upstrokes, time to learn them before you need hand and wrist surgery.

Or maybe I've got my head up my butt and you guys are right. Maybe you really CAN tell. Welp, here's your chance to prove me wrong (or right). I just cut two tracks, one all downstrokes, one all down/up. All you have to do is pick which track is all downstrokes. Your options are A, B and carrots, meaning you can't tell the difference. If a far greater number of people pick the right one, then I'll stop saying it's possible. But it's got to be a pretty wide margin, otherwise I'll think everyone's just flipping a coin, and I shall continue waving the down/up flag. Or pick as it were.

TECH NOTES:

---Signal Path---

Hammersmith PJ with EMG Geezer PJ's, P on full, J off, tone knob up all the way, newish Dunlop Super Bright Nickel rounds, played with Dunlop Max Grip 1.5 mm, into a Tech 21 VT Deluxe set dead clean and flat just to eliminate those tweeter frequencies I hate, into an A Designs REDDI, a Fast Track C400 interface, and Cakewalk. Absolutely no effects were used, and that includes compression.

Played a short bit of 3 popular songs, "Blitzkrieg Bop" by the Ramones, "Shoot To Thrill" by AC/DC, and "Black Velvet" by Allanah Myles. Don't know what possessed me to play that last one, but too late to change it now.

Anyway, I'll give it up to 3 days before I post results, but I may post them after a couple days depending on how many votes we get. I'm looking forward to everyone's comments. Good luck!
 
Last edited:
Enhhh, I think I can tell. Having said that, I don’t really think a bunch of bassists listening to isolated tracks specifically to identify upstrokes really proves anything.
Maybe, maybe not. But this is what I've got to work with and I'm not about to cut several different 3-minute songs twice for a little Talkbass AB test :D
 
One monkey in this wrench is that one could intentionally mask the truth by adjusting technique to make one sound like the other, i.e. purposefully striking upstrokes harder (to make them sound like downstrokes) or varying dynamics in an all downstroke run (to make some of them sound like upstrokes).

Not that I would ever insinuate such a dastardly act is being perpetrated here....
 
One monkey in this wrench is that one could intentionally mask the truth by adjusting technique to make one sound like the other, i.e. purposefully striking upstrokes harder (to make them sound like downstrokes) or varying dynamics in an all downstroke run (to make some of them sound like upstrokes).

Not that I would ever insinuate such a dastardly act is being perpetrated here....
Better not, you :D
 
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Reactions: Kro



So this has been an ongoing controversy on Talkbass for a while now. People on here, especially those who play rock styles, say that downstrokes with a pick always sound different and more consistent than strict down/up. I say that's a load of crap, as I believe that if you want your down/up picking to sound more consistent, you need to practice till you can't tell the difference, and you'll make it happen if you practice it enough. I also consider straight downpicking at medium tempos and faster to be very detrimental to the health of your picking hand. I can't do it longer than 30 seconds at a time before my hand starts to feel like it's going to fall off. Best I can do with all downstrokes is a walking jazz line with everything hitting on the beat, and even those get challenging when the tempo picks up. Maybe when I was 20 or 30 I could do it. Wish I still could. It certainly looks much cooler onstage. But since 40 came and went, those days are long over.

And still, people argue with me about it, and dare I say, some people who should know better. Folks, you can do anything with practice. That's all it takes. If you can do upstrokes at all, you can do it. And if you can't do upstrokes, time to learn them before you need hand and wrist surgery.

Or maybe I've got my head up my butt and you guys are right. Maybe you really CAN tell. Welp, here's your chance to prove me wrong (or right). I just cut two tracks, one all downstrokes, one all down/up. All you have to do is pick which track is all downstrokes. Your options are A, B and carrots, meaning you can't tell the difference. If a far greater number of people pick the right one, then I'll stop saying it's possible. But it's got to be a pretty wide margin, otherwise I'll think everyone's just flipping a coin, and I shall continue waving the down/up flag. Or pick as it were.

TECH NOTES:

---Signal Path---

Hammersmith PJ with EMG Geezer PJ's, P on full, J off, tone knob up all the way, newish Dunlop Super Bright Nickel rounds, played with Dunlop Max Grip 1.5 mm, into a Tech 21 VT Deluxe set dead clean and flat just to eliminate those tweeter frequencies I hate, into an A Designs REDDI, a Fast Track C400 interface, and Cakewalk. Absolutely no effects were used, and that includes compression.

Played a short bit of 3 popular songs, "Blitzkrieg Bop" by the Ramones, "Shoot To Thrill" by AC/DC, and "Black Velvet" by Allanah Myles. Don't know what possessed me to play that last one, but too late to change it now.

Anyway, I'll give it up to 3 days before I post results, but I may post them after a couple days depending on how many votes we get. I'm looking forward to everyone's comments. Good luck!

Vote is in...
“B” all down strokes.
If we get it right do we get a sticker or an SVT HERITAGE something or other?:smug:
 
I'd bet several pitchers of beer that A is down/up and B is down/down. But I spent years in symphony orchestras and studied composition, so making the best use of the slightest inherent differences in bowing direction (aka stroke) is something thoroughly ingrained in me.

That said, there's undoubtedly uses for both techniques. Hammering downbows in orchestral passages is done only briefly, and for extra punch and aggression, just as using just upbows (unheard of to only upstroke with a pick! But it should be a practiced technique too) diffuses energy and gives this very human sense of trepidation to musical passages utilizing it (though syncopations using upbows can be accented for a particularly heavy kind of emphasis since leaning into the stroke takes more effort, which does transmit thru the bow). And alternating bows gives the greatest control over gradual changes in volume/energy as well as over short riffs that follow natural musical direction.