Pick Downstrokes vs. Down/Up---Can You Tell?

[JimmyM]

Well it's been my experience that in polls like this, once a clear favorite breaks out with such a wide margin, the gap never closes significantly. At this moment, B is leading with 69.4% of the vote. So I'm declaring this poll over, but before I give the results, I'd like to say one thing...

I HATE YOU! I HATE YOU ALL!

B is all downstrokes.

Man, I listened to those tracks several times before I posted them, tried to picture myself playing the downstroke track down and up and vice versa, and I was buying into both of them that way. And you know what? I still do. I truly believe in my heart of hearts that if I were cutting a punk rock song for a top producer, and I did a track of each and the producer couldn't see me play, said producer would tell me to quit wasting my time with such trivial nonsense and cut it the way that's most comfortable to me. Which, of course, would certainly be down/up that's most comfortable to me, and I guess some of you picked up on it. And I'll tell you, the reason these samples were so short was because if I went much longer, I'd be in a lot of pain as opposed to the mere discomfort I was feeling by the end of them. So if they sound more choppy and not as flowing as some of you pointed out, trying to will myself from having pain was the most likely reason.

So while most of you were right that you could tell my downstrokes from my down/ups, I say big deal The difference isn't big enough to warrant possible surgery over your measley little punk rock song. Unless you pay quad scale. Then I'll think about it.

 

[StatesideRambler]

I’d say that playing live, it makes a small, probably indiscernible difference. Recording, though, it would make a less small, probably discernible difference. But just how discernible? I dunno.

Down-up-down-up vs. down-down-down-down. The former is more likely to have a flowing feel while the latter is more likely to sound choppy, nervous or uneven. That difference in feel would be a lot more important. In another dialect the question might be boom-chuck-boom-chuck vs. boom-boom-boom-boom. Which drummer would you prefer on stage with you?

One monkey in this wrench is that one could intentionally mask the truth by adjusting technique to make one sound like the other, i.e. purposefully striking upstrokes harder (to make them sound like downstrokes) or varying dynamics in an all downstroke run (to make some of them sound like upstrokes).

Not that I would ever insinuate such a dastardly act is being perpetrated here....

If one can play at least that well then it proves carrots.

 

[Wito]

I HATE YOU! I HATE YOU ALL!

That made my day!

I got this one right (no cheating; answered before reading the comments ), but I must admit that it was based solely on the parts of the AC/DC song in which you were hitting the same note in a row a bunch of times. On none of the other two songs I could tell the two techniques apart. And I know for sure that I wouldn't be able to tell the difference the moment you add another (any) instrument.

 

[bench]

a sounds more inconsistent. so i'd say b is the downstrokes track.

edit: ooops, late to the party...

 

[gumtown]

Without listening to any tracks, I vote B, based on others replies !!

Not sure what has happened to my picking style, when I first started playing bass over 40 years ago, I started with fingers only, then moved to picking, but now my picking style is mostly upward, then as the tempo increases or time sig become more complex, I change to downward, then up and down.
But I still play with fingers if playing triplets.

 

[Pulverizor]

The audience can tell. One is fun and high energy, the other not so much.

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

Well it's been my experience that in polls like this, once a clear favorite breaks out with such a wide margin, the gap never closes significantly. At this moment, B is leading with 69.4% of the vote. So I'm declaring this poll over, but before I give the results, I'd like to say one thing...

I HATE YOU! I HATE YOU ALL!

B is all downstrokes.

Man, I listened to those tracks several times before I posted them, tried to picture myself playing the downstroke track down and up and vice versa, and I was buying into both of them that way. And you know what? I still do. I truly believe in my heart of hearts that if I were cutting a punk rock song for a top producer, and I did a track of each and the producer couldn't see me play, said producer would tell me to quit wasting my time with such trivial nonsense and cut it the way that's most comfortable to me. Which, of course, would certainly be down/up that's most comfortable to me, and I guess some of you picked up on it. And I'll tell you, the reason these samples were so short was because if I went much longer, I'd be in a lot of pain as opposed to the mere discomfort I was feeling by the end of them. So if they sound more choppy and not as flowing as some of you pointed out, trying to will myself from having pain was the most likely reason.

So while most of you were right that you could tell my downstrokes from my down/ups, I say big deal The difference isn't big enough to warrant possible surgery over your measley little punk rock song. Unless you pay quad scale. Then I'll think about it.

I’d go a bit further and say that while B is clearly down picked, A sounds better. It certainly doesn’t sound less aggressive or less heavy, but it does sound fluid and organic where B sounds clunky and awkward in comparison to A. Since the point of the discussion was whether downstrokes only produces a better tone for heavy music, I don’t hear anything that changes my opinion in any meaningful way.

A few folks mention using downstrokes only for purposes of feel and/or groove; I get that, I actually switch to downstrokes on some slower tempo songs to keep the energy up; it may be less efficient, but to me it feels more urgent and energetic, which for some songs is where I want my head to be at. For me it’s purely psychological though, a way to keep me feeling the song in the right way.

 

[mmon77]

I voted B as well. I also think that A actually sounded better, and more "fluid".

There is a subtle difference in sound between up strokes an down strokes that I don't think anyone can totally get rid of. Like many things, I think there's no correct answer as to whether alternate picked or all down picked is better. It depends on the situation. Marty Friedman used to say that when he joined Megadeth, he had to re-learn all the rhythm guitar parts because Dave Mustaine said they had to be picked a certain way or it didn't sound right. Certain parts needed to be all down strokes. Dave is fairly well known to be a control freak (and worse), so that may be part of his reason for saying that as well.

This was a fun challenge though. Thanks for doing that!

 

[MattZilla]

I can absolutely tell on guitar. It can be practiced into near un-noticability on bass-in-a-mix. All downstrokes on a bass in a recording or live is like hollow titanium bolts on an ameteur race car.




Regarding health...

All downstrokes: Pepper Keenan. Pretty sure he has had no wrist injuries in several decades of somewhat high bpm all DS playing.

All alternative picking: Dave Mustane. Nearly lost all use of his picking hand in the early 2000s.

 

[BOOG]

In another dialect the question might be boom-chuck-boom-chuck vs. boom-boom-boom-boom. Which drummer would you prefer on stage with you?

Great analogy. Makes sense.

 

[BassWaffle]

It's without a doubt B that is all downstrokes. I think sometimes it is harder to tell depending on who is doing it, but doing up/down vs down pretty much just affects your pulsing of the notes. Doesn't really change the tone or tempo, but when you are alternating you can clearly hear that every other note is not as emphasized as the notes on the downbeat.
I don't think it's very hard to do at medium-fast tempos, and it definitely is a useful skill, even if all it does is get me more hyped up during a song. However, if I'm really hitting the strings hard, there's no way the up stroke is not going to sound weak in comparison.

 

[UntitledUser]

And what do you think about the "Waving down strokes"?
When you stroke down, moving the pick progressively from neck to bridge; inside the time of a full measure and you go back toward the neck position when next measure start, so the tone waves between measures.
[this is for simple rock bass lines made of just root notes]

 

[BasementWarrior]

I voted B for downstrokes before reading any comments. I also didn’t feel it sounded any different than A but it was played more comfortably... if that makes any sense.

 

[lfmn16]

If your pick upstrokes and downstrokes sound different, it's not the technique, it's the player.

 

[bigswifty1]

I HATE YOU! I HATE YOU ALL!

Hang on, that's not fair, you should only be hating 67.3% (at time of writing) of us. Including me. FWIW I went into this thinking it would be a miracle if I could notice anything, but, laptop speakers, watching TV at the same time, I was convinced after the first two bars of "Blitz (A)" and didn't listen further.

Having said that, I totally agree with alternate picking to stave off injuries. I don't think *anyone* would notice in a mix. Let alone live. Unless I was shooting a video or something (heaven forbid hehe) I would totally alternate pick. Having said *that* I can't play with a pick anyway
Mike

 

[Wito]

And what about the "Waving down strokes"?
You stroke down, moving the pick progressively from neck to bridge; inside the time of a full measure and you go back toward the neck position when next measure start, so the tone waves between measures.
[this is for simple rock bass lines made of just root notes]

Yeah, I have done that! It creates a super subtle "flanging" effect. It's kind of cool, but also kind of difficult to notice in a full band mix

 

[onosson]

B is more consistent, therefore gets my vote.

But A sounds better...

 

[DonBorelli]

I know the poll is over but it was easy to hear.
I believe playing downstrokes only creates a certain energy and evenness that will always sound different than playing down/up...no matter how good your technique is.

The down/up clip sounded fine as well...but it did not have the same vibe.

 

[bassinflorida]

One monkey in this wrench is that one could intentionally mask the truth by adjusting technique to make one sound like the other, i.e. purposefully striking upstrokes harder (to make them sound like downstrokes) or varying dynamics in an all downstroke run (to make some of them sound like upstrokes).

Me thinks you made Jimmy's point.

 

[maxschrek]

I’d go a bit further and say that while B is clearly double picked, A sounds better. It certainly doesn’t sound less aggressive or less heavy, but it does sound fluid and organic where B sounds clunky and awkward in comparison to A. Since the point of the discussion was whether downstrokes only produces a better tone for heavy music, I don’t hear anything that changes my opinion in any meaningful way.

A few folks mention using downstrokes only for purposes of feel and/or groove; I get that, I actually switch to downstrokes on some slower tempo songs to keep the energy up; it may be less efficient, but to me it feels more urgent and energetic, which for some songs is where I want my head to be at. For me it’s purely psychological though, a way to keep me feeling the song in the right way.

Agreed 100%