Pickup placement locations…list?

[newbold]

Greetings,

On my Stingray, the poles of its pickup are under harmonics that seem to be octave and 3rd, so I decided to do some measuring and locate the strongest other harmonics under possible pickup locations

From the 12th fret, a strong octave was at 8 1/2” (24 fret) a third was at 10 1/2”, a fifth was at 11 3/4”, and my Stingray’s poles were at 13” (octave) and 14” (3rd/11th) but those harmonics were mostly quieter due to string travel.

Maybe my measurements were incorrect, but it has me asking:

Is there a list of pickup placement measurements for most/many production basses and if you can share it here, would you please?

It seems likely that a split coil precision’s treble side polepieces are right under that fifth harmonic and a J or 51 P is right under that fourth that’s clearer and fatter than the bridgeside coil on my stingray’s 3rd/11th harmonic

If a P’s trebleside poles are just about on that 5th and the bass side poles are just about on the 3rd then why aren’t we seeing more builders place big fat humbuckers straddling those harmonics (possibly wired parallel with vol/blend controls)?

I went down this rabbit hole after craving a J with a sweeter bridge pickup position. I don’t prefer the nasal/honk and would much rather feel a sound that’s more in the middle of my head, almost at the back but not yet throaty. If I can find a fatter sweet spot than my Stingray that hits that sound I have “in my head”

Thanks for reading and for any help that you can extend.

 

[FugaziBomb]

From the 12th fret, a strong octave was at 8 1/2” (24 fret) a third was at 10 1/2”, a fifth was at 11 3/4”, and my Stingray’s poles were at 13” (octave) and 14” (3rd/11th) but those harmonics were mostly quieter due to string travel.

What happens when you fret a note, tho?

 

[newbold]

What happens when you fret a note, tho?

I found that, for the most part, those same positions still rang a number of harmonics even while fretting higher up the neck well past the 7th fret and had some nice tones on normal notes.

If the Stingray’s humbucker coils are directly under harmonics, other designs likely incorporate other spots with strong harmonics.

Maybe it’s a fluke, but I doubt it.

Even if you don’t have a list, check to see on your bass. I’m not suggesting that you measure, but find the harmonics between the end of the neck and the bridge if you’re game to try.

 

[smeet]

If by “under harmonics” you mean that touching the string there creates that harmonic, then that is a node, meaning that harmonic has zero amplitude at that location. So that is the opposite of hearing that harmonic at that location.

 

[KidAmnesia]

It seems likely that a split coil precision’s treble side polepieces are right under that fifth harmonic and a J or 51 P is right under that fourth that’s clearer and fatter than the bridgeside coil on my stingray’s 3rd/11th harmonic

If a P’s trebleside poles are just about on that 5th and the bass side poles are just about on the 3rd then why aren’t we seeing more builders place big fat humbuckers straddling those harmonics (possibly wired parallel with vol/blend controls)?

On a bass, EA side is right between those major 3rd and 5th open strings harmonics and the DG coil is between the 5th and 8ve, right under the node for the minor 7th. And that's why that harmonic is almost inaundible when amplified.

But as soon as you fret a note those nodes move along the string; so it doesn't make much sense to place the pickups right under the nodes if they won't be at that place 99% of the actual playing time.

If you want to obsess over this topic but with actual experience, do what I did. Get a cheap bass, route a big swimming pool under the strings and start moving pickups arround. Changes are subtle, but I found out I really like a single pickup on the DG side of a pbass position.

 

[dune]

@newbold et al, I downloaded this from a thread here awhile back. There are some notes at the top regarding the thread in which it originated or was based on or whatever. It's pretty comprehensive.

 

[retslock]

Greetings,

On my Stingray, the poles of its pickup are under harmonics that seem to be octave and 3rd, so I decided to do some measuring and locate the strongest other harmonics under possible pickup locations

From the 12th fret, a strong octave was at 8 1/2” (24 fret) a third was at 10 1/2”, a fifth was at 11 3/4”, and my Stingray’s poles were at 13” (octave) and 14” (3rd/11th) but those harmonics were mostly quieter due to string travel.

Maybe my measurements were incorrect, but it has me asking:

Is there a list of pickup placement measurements for most/many production basses and if you can share it here, would you please?

It seems likely that a split coil precision’s treble side polepieces are right under that fifth harmonic and a J or 51 P is right under that fourth that’s clearer and fatter than the bridgeside coil on my stingray’s 3rd/11th harmonic

If a P’s trebleside poles are just about on that 5th and the bass side poles are just about on the 3rd then why aren’t we seeing more builders place big fat humbuckers straddling those harmonics (possibly wired parallel with vol/blend controls)?

I went down this rabbit hole after craving a J with a sweeter bridge pickup position. I don’t prefer the nasal/honk and would much rather feel a sound that’s more in the middle of my head, almost at the back but not yet throaty. If I can find a fatter sweet spot than my Stingray that hits that sound I have “in my head”

Thanks for reading and for any help that you can extend.

You mean something like this? I wanted to do this for some time and it works very well. It's a Nordstrand MM5.2 wired with a series/parallel switch but parallel is the better sound in my opinion. The centre of the pickup is where the two Precision pickups would meet - 294mm from the centre of the 12th fret. This bass gets plenty of gig time and it sounds great.

 

[FugaziBomb]

I don't think there's some grand mathmagical equation to pickup placement. I think it was probably a lot of trial and error at first. The earliest pickups just attached to the end of the fingerboard on jazz boxes because that was the easiest place to put them. I've read a few stories of Leo Fender having a trial and error approach to things, so I doubt he was working out the math, either.

I can't remember if it was Vai or Satch who claimed that a pickup in the virtual 24th fret position was optimal, but I know I heard one of them say it, so you're not the first to go down this road either.

TL;Dr - Maybe it matters, maybe it doesn't.

 

[birminghambass]

 

[burgerdj]

You mean something like this? I wanted to do this for some time and it works very well. It's a Nordstrand MM5.2 wired with a series/parallel switch but parallel is the better sound in my opinion. The centre of the pickup is where the two Precision pickups would meet - 294mm from the centre of the 12th fret. This bass gets plenty of gig time and it sounds great.

View attachment 7472001

I’ve dreamt about a bass exactly like this. Nice!

 

[newbold]

You mean something like this? I wanted to do this for some time and it works very well. It's a Nordstrand MM5.2 wired with a series/parallel switch but parallel is the better sound in my opinion. The centre of the pickup is where the two Precision pickups would meet - 294mm from the centre of the 12th fret. This bass gets plenty of gig time and it sounds great.

View attachment 7472001

Sweet!

If you ever put a blend control on the parallel setting, I’d like to know.

 

[newbold]

I don't think there's some grand mathmagical equation to pickup placement. I think it was probably a lot of trial and error at first. The earliest pickups just attached to the end of the fingerboard on jazz boxes because that was the easiest place to put them. I've read a few stories of Leo Fender having a trial and error approach to things, so I doubt he was working out the math, either.

I can't remember if it was Vai or Satch who claimed that a pickup in the virtual 24th fret position was optimal, but I know I heard one of them say it, so you're not the first to go down this road either.

TL;Dr - Maybe it matters, maybe it doesn't.

Thanks to the responses here so far I’ve learned that the ‘51 P is pretty much right under one of the harmonics and at least a couple others sit right under the next. Some P coils hit that spot.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

The harmonics are pretty much irrelevant, because as was said above, they move as soon as you fret a note. The reason is that the harmonics occur at specific subdivisions of the vibrating length of the string (which changes with fretting), NOT the scale length (unless all strings are open) or the total length under tension (from ball end to tuner). What probably makes a bigger tonal difference is how close to (or far from) the middle of the vibrating length of the string your pickup is, on average, when you're actually playing. This suggests that if one works mostly in the "money notes" (5th fret and down), one might have a different view of what pickup placement sounds good than, say, somebody who plays a lot in the higher registers.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

I've read a few stories of Leo Fender having a trial and error approach to things, so I doubt he was working out the math, either.

Almost certainly he wasn't. I've never heard a single thing to suggest that he was.

 

[Low Main]

There's video of Leo's office at G&L with his pickup location jig on the desk. Just a blocked up neck and bridge with space between them so he could slide pickups around and find locations he liked.

Jack Casady said that when Epiphone was doing protos of his signature hollowbody, they moved the pickup location 1/8" and it made a big difference.

I have a coffee can full of thin rippings, about 3/16" or so thick, maybe 10" long, 7/8" wide. When I work on a bass, I take one of these story sticks and measure the CL of the pickups from the 20th fret, then note the make, model, scale length, etc.

The aim was to build a small library of pickup locations for comparative reference. It's not as tidy as a spreadsheet, but it's useful nonetheless. Good to have if I wanted to do something like build a J style bass with the pickups in the Lakland Scheff locations.

 

[funkinbottom]

@newbold et al, I downloaded this from a thread here awhile back. There are some notes at the top regarding the thread in which it originated or was based on or whatever. It's pretty comprehensive.

Thanks for posting this, much more helpful for me. I'm not real hip on pickup placement according to this or that harmonics, but I own a tape measure.

 

[newbold]

Thanks for posting this, much more helpful for me. I'm not real hip on pickup placement according to this or that harmonics, but I own a tape measure.

I am only working this thread because I thought that I saw something and what I found corroborated it, to a large degree.

I marked the harmonic points at different fretted positions and while there’s movement there isn’t much.

I’m getting nostalgic to think back to my last Jazz bass, a MIM fiver. The pickups are, according to this chart, set more toward the neck. 27.75 compared to 27.36 of the 51 reissue. I lived on that neck pickup.

You’ll see on this screenshot that the Epiphone Jack Casady pickup is on that same centerline as classic P’s and hits that harmonic fifth.

While Leo Fender worked what fit just right and it wasn’t from numbers, the reality here, unfolding before my hands and eyes is that there seems to be a correlation and the character we hear may come from being right on or *just* a little to one side.

 

[newbold]

I don't think there's some grand mathmagical equation to pickup placement. I think it was probably a lot of trial and error at first. The earliest pickups just attached to the end of the fingerboard on jazz boxes because that was the easiest place to put them. I've read a few stories of Leo Fender having a trial and error approach to things, so I doubt he was working out the math, either.

I can't remember if it was Vai or Satch who claimed that a pickup in the virtual 24th fret position was optimal, but I know I heard one of them say it, so you're not the first to go down this road either.

TL;Dr - Maybe it matters, maybe it doesn't.

If you think the neck pickup on a Rickenbacker has a certain magic, you totally get the 24 fret pickup position.

 

[Empap]

When you go down that rabbit hole, there are a lot of things that ''Connect'' together in regards to PU placement on classic models.
Measures are usually taken from the nut.

• Split-P and MM overlap by 1/8th of an inch because of wider P casing. If it was inside a MM casing, the EA half would stay at the same place, the DG coil would move about 1/8th'' close to the neck (negligible), and they could be put side by side without any problems. (or you can move either one of them by 1/8th'' and the change in timbre would go unnoticed).
• MM Stingray center is 30.5'' from the nut.
• Rickenbacker Bridger is roughly exactly where the neckside coil of the MM pickup is (30'').
• Rickenbacker Neck is roughly exactly at 24th fret.
• EB-0 Mudbucker is slightly above that but very close.
• Most long scale mudbucker basses (such as the Tele Bass and some EB-(x)L) move the pickup too close to the neck which puts it between 21st and 22nd fret.
• Some Thunderbirds share the same spacing between neck and bridge pickup than Jazz basses, only both PU moved half an inch, more or less, towards the neck. Warwick shares that same mentality, but towards the bridge.

My conclusion out of all this was:

• There's a ''sweet-spot'' for some type of pickup anywhere between 27'' and 31.5''. you move by a quarter or half of an inch and bam you're at another traditional placement. (27.375 50sP, 27.875 Jazz, 28.625 (or 28+29.125) Split-P, 29.95 Rick Bridge, 30.5 (or 30+31) MM, 31.5 60s Jazz...)
• There's also a trend in basses with a Neck + Bridge PU, where the spacing between the two is almost always around 4'', with a +/- 0.5 inch. (Rick is around 4.5, 60s Jazz is about 3.6, 70s Jazz is 4, Thunderbird depends on the model but varies from 3.8 to 4.3 usually).
• Being that the EB-0 and Rickenbacker are very popular models, ''putting a PU at the 24th fret must be ideal'' is a tried and true thing, somewhat.

 

[Empap]

I’m getting nostalgic to think back to my last Jazz bass, a MIM fiver. The pickups are, according to this chart, set more toward the neck. 27.75 compared to 27.36 of the 51 reissue.

I think you mean the opposite? the bigger the number the closer to the bridge.