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Double Bass Planning a doubling rig

J

john-boro

May 8, 2009
124
63
#1
I already have a Tone Hammer 500 amp which I like for both upright and electric. Now, how to get a nice switchable doubling setup with independent EQ control for each instrument? With as little additional investment as possible!

It seems that preamp pedals with two genuinely EQ'able channels are quite rare (Trickfish Trilobite, Radial Tonebone OD?). But if I had a preamp pedal with two channels only one of which has an EQ, I could do the following:
-- EB into the amplifier
-- amp's effects send into one input of the outboard preamp pedal (the non-EQ'able input)
-- amp's effects return into the other input of the outboard preamp pedal (the EQ'able input)
-- outboard preamp's output into amp's effects return

That way the EB and UB signals have separate EQ sections and level controls, and the switching is done by the outboard preamp.

Now, it took me long enough to figure this out and I've no confidence it's the best idea...

--> does it make sense?
--> any other good solutions?

:-) thanks
 
#3
You're correct in that the choices are limited but they are avaliable. I use a Grace Designs Felix, works great, sounds great and it's a Dual Channel. There's also the Acoustic Box II, and if you want to think outside the box
The Headway EDB-2 is a perfect little doubling preamp, you can assign the EQ to Channel 1 for Double Bass and plug your active bass (or passive bass0 into Channel 2 which has no EQ at that point but does have a
separate volume control. I've used it for that several times, mounted on a mic stand. Works just fine. Additionally, the new Euphonic Audio Doubler has everything you'll need and new beefed up power amp and weighst
about the same as one of the larger pedal preamps. Just my take
 
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#5
yeah. The new EA doubler looks nice and for amp free situations could be used as a preamp in its own right. So long as I like the basic sound of it vs my tone hammer 500.

The point about DI’s is interesting. Seems to me that with an external switching preamp in the effects loop of the amp, I could achieve that. The amp’s DI (used pre eq) and the pedals DI.
 
#6
john-boro said:
yeah. The new EA doubler looks nice and for amp free situations could be used as a preamp in its own right. So long as I like the basic sound of it vs my tone hammer 500.

The point about DI’s is interesting. Seems to me that with an external switching preamp in the effects loop of the amp, I could achieve that. The amp’s DI (used pre eq) and the pedals DI.
Click to expand...

As long as you don’t have to go back and forth between pre and post there are internal jumpers on the Doubler where you can change the DI from pre to post.
 
#8
thanks guys. god this is pretty tough it seems to me. Ideally I want to have separate signal paths, EQs and DI outs for both electric and upright, with muting/tuning ability. seems damn complicated. thanks for the input!
 
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#9
john-boro said:
thanks guys. god this is pretty tough it seems to me. Ideally I want to have separate signal paths, EQs and DI outs for both electric and upright, with muting/tuning ability. seems damn complicated. thanks for the input!
Click to expand...

The Grace Designs Felix has dual DI’s that you can route via a Channel foot switch and a dual EQ section. So, it’s not. complicated at all, just expensive.
 
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#10
The Radial is a good choice and once in a while a used one comes up here on TB - it does everything that you want except two separate DI outs. I cannot imagine why you would need two DI outs unless you are playing both basses at the same time, since you can set eq and levels for each bass separately at the preamp before the line out to the board.....
 
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#12
After buying the Headway, Grace Design and Radial units , here is what serves me the best.

I set the eq during sound check , snap a picture with my cell phone , then use the mute button and plug them in as needed.

By using this approach, i actually learned the eq by ear and kept my money in my pocket
 
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#13
bherman said:
The Radial is a good choice and once in a while a used one comes up here on TB - it does everything that you want except two separate DI outs. I cannot imagine why you would need two DI outs unless you are playing both basses at the same time, since you can set eq and levels for each bass separately at the preamp before the line out to the board.....
Click to expand...

Here’s the scenario, Chior concert, doubling DB & EB, different EQ’s back to the amp, switching between the two basses throughout the concert. The house doesn’t have to change levels or adjust the EQ.?
 
#14
Ric Vice said:
Here’s the scenario, Chior concert, doubling DB & EB, different EQ’s back to the amp, switching between the two basses throughout the concert. The house doesn’t have to change levels or adjust the EQ.?
Click to expand...
In my experience no - you set the differences in levels and eq at your preamp, the same differences carry over to FOH. Now if you were playing 10,000 seat arenas with a team of dedicated soundcrew, then I could see running two separate lines. I've used the same setup with two different basses with very different output levels and eq requirements and as long as I set them properly switching between them was seamless for me - keep both basses plugged in and ready to go with one click of the footswitch.
 
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#15
bherman said:
In my experience no - you set the differences in levels and eq at your preamp, the same differences carry over to FOH. Now if you were playing 10,000 seat arenas with a team of dedicated soundcrew, then I could see running two separate lines. I've used the same setup with two different basses with very different output levels and eq requirements and as long as I set them properly switching between them was seamless for me - keep both basses plugged in and ready to go with one click of the footswitch.
Click to expand...

To each his own, Just for clarification, I set the level on both Channels of the Grace, the gain on the DB channel will typically be higher than the EB, while the EQ’s are understandably different. Since I have a Amp level control, I set that for my onstage level. I send both DI’s FOH and let them determine the level our in the house. Just like you, all I need do is click the foot switch.
 
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#16
I just picked up a Shuttlemax 9.2 from a fellow TBer and absolutely love it.

It took a few minutes of setup with our sound guy to make sure he was getting consistent levels from DB and EB respectively, but after that we just rolled with it. He’s happy, and I’m very happy. The EQ in this machine is spectacular (and I’m using Tone Dexter in front of the FET channel for a more lifelike representation).

I do however wish there were separate DI outs for the channels, but this has been quite usable and simple. The Tube side is ridiculous on EB, best tones of my life. I don’t think there’s many options like this amp out there, especially with the varied tonal palette. I’m scared to lose this rig now.
 
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#18
logdrum said:
Alembic Fx2 Both channels have EQ. Otherwise Radial for me when I want it light
Click to expand...

The Fx2 is a remarkable preamp, unless you use a microphone. In that instance you wouldn't have the proper EQ or input capacity.
Jon Mush said:
I just picked up a Shuttlemax 9.2 from a fellow TBer and absolutely love it.

It took a few minutes of setup with our sound guy to make sure he was getting consistent levels from DB and EB respectively, but after that we just rolled with it. He’s happy, and I’m very happy. The EQ in this machine is spectacular (and I’m using Tone Dexter in front of the FET channel for a more lifelike representation).

I do however wish there were separate DI outs for the channels, but this has been quite usable and simple. The Tube side is ridiculous on EB, best tones of my life. I don’t think there’s many options like this amp out there, especially with the varied tonal palette. I’m scared to lose this rig now.
Click to expand...

It's pretty rare for any amplifier to have Dual DI's. I think the Wayne Jones does. The Shuttlemax 9.2 along with it's smaller bretheren are great amps.
 
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#20
dear all, thank you for this great input (I don't seem to get reply notifications but I've been checking in). seems there are many different solutions to this issue. bherman's advice holds for plenty of the gigs I do, but there are enough cases for me where two separate DI's are beneficial -- where the FOH mix is doing most or all of the work for example, I think it's preferable *if possible* to have the sound guy treat the acoustic and electric as separate instruments on his board.

to conclude my question, where I ended up with was making use of some things I had already to build up a pedaltrain nano+ board with a doubling setup. I'm awaiting a stompbox preamp (probably aguilar) then it'll be done. I'm using a sort of circular path in a Boss LS-2 to share my HPF and tuner between both basses, then sending the onward paths into the stompbox preamp and into my head preamp, to get the two separate DI's. Maybe one day I'll grab another stompbox preamp for cases where no amp at all is needed.

details here:
New pedalboard day: Nano+ with switching for doubling
 
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