• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

"Play it like this..."

#41
tomnomnom91 said:
I don't see the problem really, personally I feel you have to be pretty up yourself if you're unwilling to get over your ego and play as part of the team. If someone's written a song and they have a part in mind, play it. What's the harm? If you feel you can enhance it then go for it, but I guess ultimately it comes down to how respectful the bandleader/songwriter is. If they're a douche to you for playing your own parts then that's not good, but I've never understood the inherent egotism and selfishness of the "I'll only play what I'm asked to if I'm getting paid" attitude.
Click to expand...

I understand your position and I don't disagree with you. There's a lot to potentially read into this situation that I, for one, can't know from what's written here.

But, it's fair to say that there are repertory musicians (play what is specified) and improvisers. Some people are one or the other, some people are both. If you've got a "jammer" and want him to play as written (or dictated) then it's probably not going to work for very long. If you ask a typical classical musician to improvise over a set of changes, their head will explode. I don't know if that's what's happening here or not, but all is fine until you have one type of musician, but want them to be the other.

The other thing that I wonder from the description and tried to touch on in my reply, is whether the BL is able to communicate what they want effectively. I too, always give deference to the song writer if they happen to be in the band, as long as they can communicate what they want.
 
#43
I've written songs on guitar before and taught them the the guitarists in my band. Yes I do get specific about hammer ons vs slides. To me it is a better sound when we all play it the same way. Same holds true for alternate picking vs down picking. It makes a difference. However, I am more than open to suggestion, and if they want to throw in a squeal or pick slide I'm totally cool with that. I can speak drum, so I can tell the drummer the exact pattern I hear in my head. This is usually a starting point though, and the drummers usually start with my idea and do it in an even cooler way that I couldn't think of because I am not a drummer.
 
#44
It comes down to the fact that people are just different in their approaches, expectations and personalities. I hope that by talking about this so much, I haven't made it out to be more than it is. I'm not on the war path; I'm just trying to get different opinions and see if there's an established etiquette about setting parts. I'll keep rolling with it.
 
#46
In your first post, you mentioned "Band Leader". If the man in charge wants it played too fast, in a different key, and with a different feel, then it's his band and while you can suggest things, one of you is the boss. If you don't like it, you leave. This is how it is in my band. Very often our band leader wants us to play it differently, and while we attempt to negotiate sometimes, we don't always win, and it's his band so it's his rules!
 
#47
If somebody knows the style better than I do, or wrote the damn song, then I don't mind playing what they want, but I'd rather either get a chart in advance or quick instructions like "play ba-boom ba-boom". I do get annoyed when people want to spend rehearsal time telling me what specific notes they want and expecting me to memorize all that on the spot. Or when somebody wants something played one way, then changes their mind. Or wants the fifth note changed, but doesn't know what it should be changed to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leonerd and BassCliff
#49
The guy's a good writer, and overall, I respect his musical judgement. It's just that he can be very particular.

My main issue is that I'd rather have to figure it out myself based on his feedback instead of being handed the part note for note. But the conversation here on TB has helped expand my perspective; there are plenty of posters who say it's up to him to set the parts if he wants to. I get that, especially on a song he wrote.

Having done three different cuts on the bassline, now, I've gotten a lot out of this one. For one thing, I've gained a better understanding of rhythmic variety vs. tonal variety, and I'm seeing that I can sit the bassline down by working with fewer tones and focusing on the rhythm -- which is what we need in this case.

On the one hand, this kind of learning is exactly why I want to have to figure it out for myself. On the other hand, now that I've learned from this exercise, it's not such an issue to hear him out on his preferences. If he's cool giving me some slack to work the song and learn, then I'll be happy to accommodate what he wants. I want to be a good bandmate, but first I want to become a good bass player. I think if we're all patient, we can make both of those happen as we go. He might not be that patient, but that's why I've been clear that I'm cool with being replaced if need be for the sake of the project.

Thanks again to everyone for all the helpful perspectives.
 
  • Like
Reactions: INTP and Tennesseemick
#50
Sounds like you got it together to me. This is a strange thing that we do and it involves a lot of very abnormal human interaction. It's all part of it, it works out between some people and not with others. I used to let that bother me, when I learned to let it go and just trust that there would always be music to play and people to play it with, it made it easier to navigate these interactions.

Keep playin', man!
 
  • Like
Reactions: FerruleCat
#52
Only you can answer this for yourself, and it is something that may greatly affect what gigs you take. I won't take a gig with someone who tries to dictate what I play. However, I am happy to take suggestions and input from anyone; I once worked with a songwriter who wrote great basslines, so I played a lot of parts that he wrote verbatim. I also am not going to play a bassline if the band as a whole -- rather than just one person -- doesn't think that it works. That being said, I only play in original bands that are a cooperative "band" scenario -- rather than a "band leader who pays the other musicians" situation. Someone trying to make a living playing music is almost certainly going to have to defer to a BL at some point.
 
#53
In my first originals band at age 56. Writer and leader is a 26 yr old kid. He writes good stuff, esp lyrically, and is very prolific. He makes no bones about his meager abilities as a guitar player and musician. He comes up with the lyrics, the basic chords, and the melody. Its up to the rest of the band to flush it out and he doesn't get haughty about it at all. Hes very aware he needs a band with musical experience and ideas to make his music better. The lead guitarist sometimes comes up with the hook that makes a soso song good. I'm responsible for all my own bass parts but I will listen if the drummer, guitarist, or songwriter has a different idea of what the bass should do. I feel like Im in this band because of what I can bring to the table. No way I could work with someone whose telling me every note to play unless as was said above, its written out for me and Im being paid real money to play the written part.
 
#55
All of the professional musicians that I work with in a band context (where the payment is equal for each player) are 'bastards' (kidding...LOL..)
I mean we'd tell & remind to each other about the part etc when in rehearsal time, and we will listen and note and do anything necessary that look very serious...
but on stage,.. different story... each will 'fly on their ship'..
The only 'locker' is just 'basic' musical things like tempo, chord, beat etc... and our own 'musical insting' base on experience.....even if we have to play with a sequencer.
There will be a big laugh and hugs after each shows that goes like that...

Except for shows that really demand 'detail attention',..that's where anybody have to be multiple times serious before and onstage.
Lucky for me all my musician friends are very easy to work with...including the MD or BL,..which usually is me or my best friend :)
We know what to tell or to do and not, to our mates. No hard feeling either.
 
#56
Do whatever you want. I would've left the instant he told the drummer which hand to hit the cymbal with. That tells you all you need to know about this guy.

Dude is micromanaging arrangements and hasn't even played these songs in front of people yet. :rolleyes:
 
#57
I guess it depends on his general attitude as well. If you had a different idea about a part could you bring it to him and talk about it? Would he be, at the very least, receptive to your input? How does he deal with that situation when he still wants the original part is it "Yeah, that's pretty good and I understand what you're doing there, but I'd prefer it if we could do it the way I originally wrote it" or is it more of a "This is my song and you're going to play what I wrote!" sort of scenario?

Along the same lines how would he react if you brought in a song you'd written? Would he be willing to play a part that you'd written for him?
 
#60
You've gotten a lot of good ideas here, and put forward some good ones of your own as well. Congrats! What seems obvious to me is that this should evolve going forward. You'll quickly get better and more confident. The question will be whether or not your BL's confidence in you will grow as well, such that he gives you more elbow room. Or is he just a hopeless control freak? You'll probably know the answer pretty soon.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back