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"Play it like this..."

#62
Here's a quick update on the startup band situation. The drummer has gone incommunicado and apparently has walked. I think he discerned that there will be no gigs in the foreseeable future. Guitarist/writer continues to be particular about parts. The one song continues to be especially problematic, and we spent time at yesterday's (drummerless) practice listening to the bass track of his demo. It turns out that he used three different patterns in the verse, so I'm not sure which is supposed to be the "correct" one. On the chorus, where he had asked me to "walk it around," it turns out that I'm supposed to just sit and pump on the root. ("A lot of great bass players just hold down the root.") I did ask him to ship me the demo with the bass track up, so that puts some onus on him to invest some effort in the song being how he wants it. We'll see if that happens. In the meantime, I think we're on the express bus to Untenableville.
 
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#64
FerruleCat said:
Here's a quick update on the startup band situation. The drummer has gone incommunicado and apparently has walked. I think he discerned that there will be no gigs in the foreseeable future. Guitarist/writer continues to be particular about parts. The one song continues to be especially problematic, and we spent time at yesterday's (drummerless) practice listening to the bass track of his demo. It turns out that he used three different patterns in the verse, so I'm not sure which is supposed to be the "correct" one. On the chorus, where he had asked me to "walk it around," it turns out that I'm supposed to just sit and pump on the root. ("A lot of great bass players just hold down the root.") I did ask him to ship me the demo with the bass track up, so that puts some onus on him to invest some effort in the song being how he wants it. We'll see if that happens. In the meantime, I think we're on the express bus to Untenableville.
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You are wasting your time with this "band". Move on.
 
#68
Doesn't sound like any originals band I've played in. Ours have always been a bit…looser, when it comes to song writing. In my current band, the guitarist will show up with 3 or 4 riffs and/or progressions. We'll work together as a band to figure out how those pieces of a puzzle go together (almost invariably discarding one of the progressions in the process). I come up with a bass line, the drummer comes up with the drums. After we put it together, the singer will come up with a vocal melody and some lyrics for it. We almost always end up arranging the song and telling the vocalist that we can alter the arrangement to fit whatever he needs for the vocals, but I don't think he's ever had us change any of them. The guitarist will almost always alter what he plays after a couple of weeks. The guitarist and I have played together off and on since 2006, and we've been playing with the drummer for about 2 years, though. We're pretty in-sync with each other at this point, so a lot of the dynamics of the songs just happen without anyone being told to do anything.
 
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#74
Done. Plug pulled, moving on. Many thanks for your patience and good advice. The best thing is that I made this decision with my brain and not with my ego. It's his right to want things just so, but that was pushing me in a direction that is not conducive to my progress as a bass player. Also not fun. I think I can see why he's never actually gigged his stuff.

"FerruleCat" is a play on feral cat (which, unbeknownst to me, we already had here at TB) and the string ferrules on my Mustang, which is my main axe. I've been thinking of a cat-butt avi with a ferrule superimposed over the critical spot, but not sure I want to go there.

The process that abbub describes is the way I want to work.

Well, back to developing some demos and practicing bass until I'm ready to roll on a new project.
 
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#76
Oh, I get it.

"FerruleCat" is a play on feral cat (which, unbeknownst to me, we already had here at TB) and the string ferrules on my Mustang, which is my main axe. I've been thinking of a cat-butt avi with a ferrule superimposed over the critical spot, but not sure I want to go there.
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I've been thinking of a space pickle avatar and I definitely want to go there.
 
#77
xUptheIronsx said:
Pretty much this in my situation now too. Though, my guitar player and I have been writing together for so long, I usually play the bass lines she is hearing anyways, or she doesn't hear a bass line initially.

Being the kind of writer that hears and creates all of the parts when I write, I can feel where the BL is coming from though. I generally let the drummer go, unless I hear specific rhythmic stops and starts, or a specific style of beat (like "train beat/marching beat/half-time/ blast etc...) but I don't tell the drummer how to fill, or what cymbals to hit. Same with any kind of soloing. I just say "solo here". Key is ________, and the phrase is _________ measures long. I personally can not solo, so why would I direct someone else in an ability that I can't do. (I am a Music Major with Percussion as my main instrument, and bass as secondary)

Lyrics are the same way. I will tell the vocalist "I hear this as the verse riff, this as the chorus etc", but then let them go. I will adjust things to there cadence or phrase needs as the song evolves and we get into the arranging process. That is when we start teaming up to build the song to the next level. I also let other people try out ideas as they get familiar with the song.

I always preface any band situation with "This is how I write. If you all don't like it, I am happy not to write for the situation". Not bowing out of my responsibilities to the band, but I just don't force the subject if I know all members are not comfortable with it.
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He did it again last night. We were working up a new song. Before we began playing, we discussed the bass groove, walks, runs, etc. after a few rounds I had gotten the bass lines set. After a few more measures we paused and he again described what he wanted. I played what I had been playing to his exclaiming, "Yes! Do that!"

Half under my breath, I said, "That's what I've been playing."

This is a new song of his. He performs all guitar parts, vocals, and harmonica so he does have a lot going on.
 
#78
You already said that you know that you are the "weak link". It all depends on his message is being delivered to you. If he has an attitude or is being rude, then you shouldn't put up with it. If he is just offering constructive criticism, you need to lighten up and listen. You might actually learn something.
 
#79
My first band I was a "I need a Band for the songs I wrote" player for a songwriter he wrote all parts of the song and I had to play what he wrote no additions or subtractions. Later on for new songs I had input. I looked at the early days as it is his art I am just the brush. Later we became what I call a band but only after what his initial sound direction was established. Be patient and it will get better
 
#80
In the future, don't tell them you're a beginning bassist, or give them any reason to think you need help coming up with your own lines. Even a beginning bassist usually has better instincts than your average singer-songwriter about what the bass should do.

I usually take my cues from the tone of the lyrics. If it's wild and wacky, that's what I do. If it's a slow dance tune, I usually opt for the alternating 1-5 so dancers know when to move their feet. If it's an exciting driving or suspenseful song. straight-8s, perhaps octaves at times. If the lyrics are cool and groovy, I walk around a bit. Just remember, YOU control the feel of the song.

However, If you are working with Dave Matthews and he has a nice mellow sad song about a depressed girl called Grey Street and he wants it bouncy and energetic... just remember who is running your gig.

Never be resistant to taking directions, but never be afraid to make suggestions or do your own thing with quiet confidence.
 
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