Playing at famous venues

[foolforthecity]

Well, you pay for having fun in any number of ways, so if this qualifies as that and you treat it as such then you might not feel so took. And there is indeed the promo pack value in the form of recordings, videos, etc. that might add some weight when hawking your act to more local areas (if that matters to them, don't know what venue owners are like in your territory). The promo/new gig value may prove worthwhile, but also make sure this venue will allow video/audio recordings, name/logo usage, pictures, anything at all that they may prohibit that would thwart your ability to use the material for marketing purposes.

Edit: and get any permissions in writing way ahead of schedule, preferably not on a cocktail napkin.

 

[hintz]

Last time I did true "pay to play" gigs was around 15 years ago, NJ and Milwaukee Metalfest's , both ran by a promoter named Jack Koshick. I played NJ twice, Asbury Park and Irvington at the Cricket Club, Milwaukee was some convention center.

I guess the Cricket Club has some prestige because of Bon Jovi, the other 2 metalfest's weren't clubs though, but these situations had potential for bands as they'd draw a few thousand people at least, all the underground labels were there, last but not least the fans!!

IIRC, Mr. Koshick would charge $1,500 per band to play 15 minutes on a split stage while the other act setup or tore down, and of course you'd have access to everything if you were a vendor or musician, so being in my early 20's it was a blast and I have no regrets!!

At the time the guitarist/BL was well connected so we got to play all the best venues in the twin cities *without* selling tickets or paying to play, of course this was pre-facebook/YouTube so id go pass out flyers *all the time*and we did alright!!

I moved since and started playing originals again this last year, where I am there is a promoter that does the ticket sales thing and unfortunately there aren't many venues!! Some would argue its not truly"pay to play" as you don't have to sell any, but its doubtful if you get asked back, plus trying to sell $25-30 tickets and not getting a return unless you sell over 20 or spot on the bill determined by how many you sold just makes me sick to my stomach and rethink my musical priorities, I just don't like it at this point in my life, it just feels like amateur hour, I dunno!!??

I voted no, not worth it IMO for a club with "prestige"...

 

[Joe Nerve]

I disagree with those who believe pay to play is ALWAYS a bad idea. Yes, clubs get over on bands like that... But if the P2P spot is the opening spot for a band of a similar nature with a big draw, it is often worth whatever the band has to do to sell some tickets, or even put some money up if necessary. Getting live exposure is tough stuff for unknown bands, and a single P2P gig can often do more good that 10 shows where the band only made $10 per person anyhow. Yeah, I get the evil side of it and paid some hefty prices w/nothing in return.... But it's not a black and white thing.

In the OPs case here, it doesn't however seem worth it.

 

[kesslari]

... is easier if you live in a big city, especially NYC or LA.

 

[Volunteerk9]

Ive wasted time/money on worse things. I say go for it.

 

[hintz]

Man, this thread has got me thinking hard about my side gig and if its worth it!! Its fun, but also a PITA, hours of driving, rehearsal space rent, paying for parking, no paying gigs or selling tickets, I'm not sure I have it in me anymore, maybe in my early 20's, maybe I'm too used to cover bands and getting paid!!?? Sorry for derail....

 

[T-MOST]

For what it's worth... I have played both CBGB's (1982) and the Apollo Theatre (1987) in New York City.

 

[Staredge]

Too bad, I haven't been up that way in years sorry to hear. It should be a protected historical site or something glad you got to play there.

It's a John Varvatos now.

Other than the pay to play, I'd do it. We're planning on going to NYC (4 hours away) to play a show at Otto's, just because we can. No pay, just the tip jar. Still, I'd heard about it for years in the surf world, and the first time I went there I knew I wanted to play it someday.

 

[Benny the Finger]

After seeing all the old curmudgeon 'no pay...no way', I really hope you go for it...
you don't get to take chances like this in a 9-5 job...the experience will be with you far longer than the money, regardless of how much you make or spend...
Never looked back on any gig and saw being paid as the highlight...but it's certainly a nice bonus...

 

[JackANSI]

Some booking drone has asked one of my bands to play a pretty famous club. (they contacted somebody else in the band, not me directly)

On the plus side:

• It's a venue where a lot of big names played and/or got their start.
• It would be kinda cool to play on that very same stage, kind of bucket-list-ish.

On the negative side:

• It's a long, long, long drive away. More than 5 hours one way. We would have to spend the night locally.
  
• It's pay to play. I can guarantee that we wouldn't sell any tickets.
  
• The gig is on a Mon or Tues night, sharing the bill with who knows how many other bands.
  
• The club's current bookings all look kinda 'blah' -- as in it looks like a bunch of other generic 'bands-that-like-the-idea-of-playing-on-the-famous-stage-to-say-they-did-so' -- i.e. no real 'name' acts.

Part of me thinks the booking person is either really scraping the bottom of the barrel in that town or doesn't realize that we aren't in the same city (?)....but again, it's one of those opportunities that you might look back at years later and say, '@#$^$?!? I shoulda played that club when they asked us!'

What would you do?

It's pay to play... if they don't book bands, no matter how unknown, they are losing out on income. That's why they are calling in every band they can.

Being that this is a huge expense (pay to play, overnighting, etc)... If I was going to make the most of it, I'd spend a bit more.

1. Promote it as best you can locally so you get milage out of the "venue" in your own area to drum up interest in your band.
2. Hire or bring someone with you that has a very good handle on photography and get lots of pictures while your playing (of just you on stage if the place is empty). If it's a large stage and the audience is small, setup fairly close together (will concentrate the audience in pictures and make them appear more plentiful if the photog is worth a nickel) or setup in a way that makes the photos of the band come out better (like being able to get a majority of your band in one frame).

Make sure you have it locked in that you're not the first or the last band playing or don't even bother with it.

 

[RustyAxe]

But if the P2P spot is the opening spot for a band of a similar nature with a big draw, it is often worth whatever the band has to do to sell some tickets, or even put some money up if necessary.

I dunno ... this is exactly the kind of pay-to-play situation I would never take. I've said it often, "if anyone on stage is getting paid tonight, I'm getting paid too". I've done quite a few openers, and never for free, and certainly never pay-to-play.

 

[hsech]

Would you say it's worth the fun factor?

Unless you are young, energetic and full of P and Vinegar it would not be fun driving a long distance, playing to no one and not getting paid. If I want to go play and not get paid I can do it a couple of blocks from here.

 

[garmenteros]

I wouldn't do it. Playing to an empty room is pointless. I find time better spent rehearsing and jamming. More enjoyable.

 

[Joe Nerve]

I dunno ... this is exactly the kind of pay-to-play situation I would never take. I've said it often, "if anyone on stage is getting paid tonight, I'm getting paid too". I've done quite a few openers, and never for free, and certainly never pay-to-play.

So if you had a pop punk band and it was going to cost you a couple of hundred bucks to play on the same bill as Greenday, you wouldn't do it? I don't get that kind of thinking, but I don't have to. And yes, I've been in that situation... Not with Greenday, but similar bands when they were new and selling places out. To me it was simply a band promo expense that was well worth it.

And to be clear, I'm not talking about 10 no name bands on the bill... Where everyone pays to play. I'm talking about gigs that are a guarantee to expose the band to lots of new potential fans.

 

[groooooove]

theres a lot of places like that here in NY. yes, some really cool people played there back in the day.

nobody cares that you (or i) played there, though- you have nothing to gain, unless it really means that much to you that so-and-so worked there however many years ago.

 

[Joe Nerve]

It's a John Varvatos now.

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Other than the pay to play, I'd do it. We're planning on going to NYC (4 hours away) to play a show at Otto's, just because we can. No pay, just the tip jar. Still, I'd heard about it for years in the surf world, and the first time I went there I knew I wanted to play it someday.

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Ohh boy... don't want to be a downer, but Otto's may not be what you're expecting. I've played there lots of times, with lots of different bands (some really good ones, too) and it was always one of those places where the only people who are going to be in the room with you playing are the ones that you put in that room. People hang out in the front where the bar is, and don't go into the back unless a friends band is playing. And they're 2 separate rooms. It's not super difficult to get a gig there, Sunday nights especially... and while possibly an iconic spot, it's not the most happening place for band exposure in NYC. If you're not playing with friends who are going to fill the place up, you might want to reconsider.

The best thing though about Otto's is that a lot of the shows are run by Frank Wood (don't know if you got your gig through him), but he's an awesome dude, and quite a character. He tends to put on very some very entertaining shows, but again... if you're not bringing people... well, good luck.

Should add that the above has been the deal up until when I last played there, about 2 years ago. There's a possibility things have changed, but it's been like that for a really long time.

 

[buldog5151bass]

So if you had a pop punk band and it was going to cost you a couple of hundred bucks to play on the same bill as Greenday, you wouldn't do it? I don't get that kind of thinking, but I don't have to. And yes, I've been in that situation... Not with Greenday, but similar bands when they were new and selling places out. To me it was simply a band promo expense that was well worth it.

And to be clear, I'm not talking about 10 no name bands on the bill... Where everyone pays to play. I'm talking about gigs that are a guarantee to expose the band to lots of new potential fans.

And that is about 1% of the PTP events, and that certainly not how it is being described by OP.

 

[Staredge]

The best thing though about Otto's is that a lot of the shows are fun by Frank Wood (don't know if you got your gig through him), but he's an awesome dude, and quite a character. He tends to put on very some very entertaining shows, but again... if you're not bringing people... well, good luck.

Should add that the above has been the deal up until when I last played there, about 2 years ago. There's a possibility things have changed, but it's been like that for a really long time.

No, it's the monthly surf night put on by Unsteady Freddie. It was a decent little crowd, the night I stopped in. Not expecting a lot, just the excuse to go to Otto's and drink some.....make a little noise.

 

[Joe Nerve]

And that is about 1% of the PTP events, and that certainly not how it is being described by OP.

I got that, and said a few times that I wouldn't do the gig presented in the OP. My PTP posts were only regarding the NEVER PTP posts. Just sharing my experience.

@Staredge , cool. I just didn't want you to walk into the unexpected. I've played to a completely empty room there, more than once . Not proud of that, but it's the truth. Hopefully the surf nights are a little better, and the bar is a cool place to hang. The people and vibe there was always super cool and friendly, for certain.

 

[Megalon]

10 hours driving,paying to play,additional cost for food,drinks hotel,hauling gear-this is not a gig. The fact that musicians are willing to do degrading stuff like this is the reason why the live playing situation is getting so bad. I wouldn't do it in a million years.