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Playing note for note.

#323
side note: I think the Rolling Stone (magazine) named Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone" the greatest Rock Song Ever - not here to argue about that but - the organ riff (Al Kooper) is one of the most 'signature' riffs ever. When Dylan was on tour and Kooper appeared with him dylan called for the song - when Kooper played the riff, Dylan went over to him and asked him if he could play it some other way. Why - I would say it is because Dylan is a Creative Artist and not a riff machine.
 
#324
I played a gig once where a very drunk and horrible loud mouthed woman kept coming up to me telling me I played Teenage Kicks wrong, I have played that song more times than I can remember and know it intimately, I wanted her to disappear into a big hole, I was concentrating on playing and singing other songs at the time so it nearly stressed me out, I ended up telling her to f*** off which had the desired effect :D

Hendrix rarely played his own songs `note for note` :)
 
#325
lyrics - Ricky Nelson
>Someone opened up a closet door
And out stepped Johnny B Goode
Playing guitar
Like a-ringin' a bell
And lookin' like he should
If you gotta play at garden parties
I wish you a lotta luck
But if memories were all I sang
I rather drive a truck
But it's all right now
I learned my lesson well
You see, ya can't please everyone
So ya got to please yourself
 
#328
lfmn16 said:
I couldn't disagree more. Audiences are there to have a good time, talk with their friends, get drunk, get laid, and oh yea, there's a band here too!

As musicians we tend to see things through our eyes, but I don't believe that most civilians could tell the difference between the record and 50% correct, as long as you did the signature licks mostly right.
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I don't find audiences want songs note for note...they just want them to sound good.
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I agree. If you have a good looking singer who knows how to get a crowd going, coupled with a decent sounding band, that's all you need. You can play songs however you want and it isn't going to make a difference. Except to a musician or 2 in the audience who may scoff at you, but who cares. People will come to see you and say you're an awesome band.

On the other hand, I still feel that if you take 2 bands with all the above happening for them - the one who plays songs closer to the original will go further, and ultimately get much more respect. UNLESS, they're completely making the songs their own.

As for the original argument (if I'm in the same thread, don't even remember) regarding creativity vs playing note for note... I'm playing in a Zep tribute. They've been busting my hump to do the lemon song, which I've been putting off because my plate if very full, and I'm learning and writing material with 2 other bands. Also working a full time day, job plus 2 nights a week. Yet, I finally gave into them. It took me all of a half an hour to learn the entire song. My way. Was able to go to rehearsal and pull it off where not many would complain. IMO that was no great feat. They'd like me to (and I'd like to) however learn it note for note. That my friends is a HUGE feat. For me, anyhow. Will take many many hours and without a doubt fill me full of some new material that will become part of me and my style. Will it make a difference? I guarantee it will. To Zep fans, but more importantly, to me. And yeah, I'm fully aware of the fact that JPJ never played that song the same way twice. Has nothing to do with it. There are some Nerve tunes that there's no way I myself would be able to duplicate, but if we were as famous as Zeppelin there would be people learning my jams note for note. Which is kinda funny for some reason. Not sure what point I'm trying to make there. :) Anyhow.... got to get to work on some other stuff that I'm learning. Note for note.
 
#329
Joe Nerve said:
but if we were as famous as Zeppelin there would be people learning my jams note for note. Which is kinda funny for some reason. Not sure what point I'm trying to make there. :)
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I think you're striking at the heart of the discussion.

The point I see in what you said is this: A song is covered because it's popular. Which means everyone has heard it a million times. Which means they expect a local cover band* to play it similarly to what they know, and to many of them, if it doesn't sound like the record (or damn close), it's "wrong."

*(This is an important point; instances cited of world-class bands covering previous popular versions differently, or world-class bands playing their own songs differently, or local-class original bands covering songs differently to "make a statement" are really not relevant to the discussion.)
 
#330
I always think that most of the audience thinks the bass player is just the person who stands still at the back, I certainly thought that before I took up an instrument :D
Most audiences concentrate on the lead guitarist and singer IMO !

But we all know different dont we :bassist:
 
#331
Joe Nerve said:
If you have a good looking singer who knows how to get a crowd going, coupled with a decent sounding band, that's all you need.... On the other hand, I still feel that if you take 2 bands with all the above happening for them - the one who plays songs closer to the original will go further, and ultimately get much more respect.
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IDK, Joe. All other things being equal, it isn't the cover band that plays closer to the originals that goes further. The band that goes further is the one with more hustle, professional savvy, and useful contacts.
 
#332
derrico1 said:
IDK, Joe. All other things being equal, it isn't the cover band that plays closer to the originals that goes further. The band that goes further is the one with more hustle, professional savvy, and useful contacts.
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And if they both have the same hustle, professional savvy, and useful contacts... the one who plays closer to the originals will go farther.

Bottom line, all things being equal (and again, UNLESS a band is making things truly their own) a band doing things note for note will be more respected and liked than a band doing things their own way. My opinion, but I believe it to also be fact. :)
 
#334
Joe Nerve said:
And if they both have the same hustle, professional savvy, and useful contacts... the one who plays closer to the originals will go farther.

Bottom line, all things being equal (and again, UNLESS a band is making things truly their own) a band doing things note for note will be more respected and liked than a band doing things their own way. My opinion, but I believe it to also be fact. :)
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I don't. I could name off 20 or 30 tunes on my band's setlist that if we did them like the records, they'd clear the dance floor. Other tunes we do we play a little closer to the originals, but I don't think but a small handful of them are note for note. Our approach seems to work for us...we grossly outdraw every other band at the main place we play, and we stay about as booked as we want. But again, to me it varies by the song, and isn't a hard and fast rule for all bands and songs.
 
#335
Munjibunga said:
Audiences listen for little nuances in the different parts. They like to hear that familiar lick. I love getting that, "Man, you guys nail those songs" comment when we go on break. Some players can't figure out the hooks, so they play something within the chord structure that doesn't suck, but doesn't convey what the composer had in mind. They excuse their ineptitude by playing the "creativity" card.

We're in the entertainment business. I like to give the audience what they want to hear. I'm not interested in hearing someone noodle in someone else's music.
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Well stated, Munji.

I'm not saying all musicians fall into this category, but I have met many musicians who were just simply too darn lazy to learn the parts correctly. Learning the parts correctly requires work, and some people just don't like that! For me personally, I actually enjoy learning the parts correctly. But I know that level of dedication is not for everyone.

I think it's good that some bands are "play it like the record" bands, and some bands are "play it our own style" bands. This provides audiences with choices.

I know that when *I* go to see a cover band, I wanna see if they nail it or not. They either do, or they don't. Neither is right or wrong, or better or worse, just different. I personally am much more impressed with the bands that nail it. All of my friends (many of whom are not musicians) who go to see bands with me share that sentiment as well.
 
#337
This is another of the issues where the answer, unsurprisingly, depends on so many different contextual factors that there's no single right answer. The extent to which a cover version is similar should really be determined by the intentions of the person or persons responsible for the arrangement (and that may or may not be the whole band).

For example, one band I play with covers Queen's "Don't Stop Me Now". We have a 13 piece horn sections (5 saxes, 8 brass). No, we don't play the Queen version note for note. We do our own, and a bloody good one it is, too. Always goes down a storm.

Conversely, I've played Earth, Wind and Fire songs with a five piece and the band made them sound good. In such situations, the arranger(s) need to listen to the song they're doing and decide which elements of it they want to use or not use, and how to get it over in the way that they want. And that's where the fun starts - good arranging can often require just as much creativity as composing, or even more. (I think that's a point that's often not understood in the "covers or originals" discussions, but that's a separate topic.)

So, the extent to which a cover version is or is not faithful to the original is more or less completely open. Doing it close to "note for note" or changing it beyond all recognition are equally legit things to do, depending on your intentions. If your arrangement achieves what you intended to achieve, then it's a success.
 
#338
It's been hinted at throughout this thread, but I don't think it's been explicitly stated: There's a big difference between a band choosing to do a different interpretation or arrangement of a song, such as EW&F's or BS&T's covers of Got to Get You Into My Life, versus a band that hacks their way through material, ignoring all of the nuances of the original, because they don't have the chops or are too lazy to faithfully reproduce the original music.
 
#339
I was in a cover band (80s stuff) and I tried to play note for note. I got maybe 90% of all intended notes, but did noodle in some (appropriate) places. My friends ("the fans lol") and band mates said they liked what I did, so I continued. The 10% I couldn't do was forgiven, as I confess I don't have the chops. I think if the audience expects a "tribute band" type of performance they won't be happy with this, but if they want a "good time" then as long as you sound and look good, you've accomplished the task.
 

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