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Playing note for note.

#82
funkyebk said:
I submit for your consideration "Got to Get you into my life"

The Beatles

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That'll cook the Note for Note folk's noodle.
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The difference there is.....everybody is on the same page as far as style, groove, note choices, etc. Not just one or 2 guys who feel their creativity is more important than the band! It's different!
 
#83
DWBass said:
In the funk and r&b world, you can't stray but so much before folks start asking just what is it you're playing. I guess y'all can get away with it more so in the rock world!
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I disagree. There's a difference between playing note-for-note and playing to the arrangement.

For example, take "Sex Machine". It's probably been done live by Bootsy Collins, Bernard Odum, Charles Sherrel, Fred Thomas, Tim Drummond, and Jimmy Lee Moore. I'm sure that each of those guys put their own flavor into the bassline. You can probably improvise a little on the bass lines, and some other parts. But, if you don't include the stops, the hits, the dynamics, and lyrics, it's just a funky one-chord jam, not "Sex Machine". IMO, it's Jimmy Nolen's guitar part that's the signature for that song.

There's lots of room for improvisation in Funk. Like Rock N Roll, there's some songs that require a tight arrangement to pull off. But some songs have such open and loose arrangements that they just beg for you to improvise over it.
 
#84
jive1 said:
I disagree. There's a difference between playing note-for-note and playing to the arrangement.

For example, take "Sex Machine". It's probably been done live by Bootsy Collins, Bernard Odum, Charles Sherrel, Fred Thomas, Tim Drummond, and Jimmy Lee Moore. I'm sure that each of those guys put their own flavor into the bassline. You can probably improvise a little on the bass lines, and some other parts. But, if you don't include the stops, the hits, the dynamics, and lyrics, it's just a funky one-chord jam, not "Sex Machine". IMO, it's Jimmy Nolen's guitar part that's the signature for that song.

There's lots of room for improvisation in Funk. Like Rock N Roll, there's some songs that require a tight arrangement to pull off. But some songs have such open and loose arrangements that they just beg for you to improvise over it.
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Many times the difference is most are TOTAL band arrangements as opposed to one or two cats doing their own thing to feed their own creativity. That's more the point I was trying to make. If the band is playing a tight arrangement and the bassist (or whoever) feels the need to feed his 'creativity'....that will not work. In any case, my view comes from doing the top40 corporate/private party/agent booked gigs. I guess you have more leeway at bar gigs. Not so at agent booked gigs. and I've been doing this since the late 70's!

Just this past weekend, we had a fill in drummer. He thought it was cool to go off on tangents and play songs his own way which was pretty much annoying us! Play it right or at least add something tasteful that works. For the record, I'm not anti-creative because I'm guilty of it but I make sure what I do works. If it doesn't, I stick to the script.
 
#87
DWBass said:
This is true but if any 'creativity' is going on, shouldn't it be a group decision?
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When I was in high school I was a non-conformist. So I hung out with all the non-conformists, and we all had long hair, and wore a lot of flannel and tie die stuff.

By acting the same and dressing the same and embracing the "Counter Culture" we all expressed our own individuality as a collective.

Seems kinda silly now.
 
#88
I learn the songs note for note till I have it cold. If I like the bass line I will keep it as written. If I feel that it could have something added that sounds cool I throw it in. If I out right hate the bass line as written I write my own. It keeps me creative. One song for example is Hotel Ca. The Eagles song I have re-written the bass part on that song and brought the song to a different level it was just so boring to me. I have even changed the bass line in Free bird to keep myself amused.
 
#89
Tampabass said:
note-for-note versions of covers? Isn't that what DJs are for?
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Really! Now I agree you need to learn the chords of the song and its progressions but geez... have some fun with with it. Nobody who's listening knows if you do them a bit off if you are following the basic song structure. There might be those who will love if you change them up or as we say Twist them up. We do "Billy Jean" with a fiddle and country it up and folks love it.
 
#90
The following is said with the understanding that my experiences are heavily biased towards the Rock\Alt\Funk\Metal type genres. And that I've now memorized 250+ songs note for note in the past 14 months.

If you're going to be in a cover band where you learn 50+ songs it's much more productive and time efficient if every single member learns each song, on their own time, near note for note.
You show up, play together and have 5-10 songs in the can. Next week you do the same thing. My belief is that the songs were recorded and performed in a certain manner and it's a nice challenge as a musician to reproduce that as well as give the crowd something familiar to hear.

When I see other cover bands I notice:
Guitar players are most guilty for just putting their "own spin" on everything. Which basically means making everything into a power chord, having a vague understanding of the rhythm and melody.
Bass players dumb everything down. Seriously guys, the songs are easy enough. :bassist: Challenge yourself some and at least learn how to lay down what's on the original recording. If you need to modify it some it's easier to afterwards.
Vocalists love to just make up lyrics, repeat verses, mix up verses. Get that stuff right. There isn't a lot of wiggle room on lyrics. Everyone in the audience is a vocalist. Not everyone is a drummer\bassist\guitarist.
Drummers tend to dumb stuff down a lot too but they are usually less guilty of this than bassists.

My overall experience when playing and auditioning for other cover bands has been that the bands that really abandon even being close to note for note are a bunch of lazy musicians. The songs tend to lack a lot of the drive and urgency that make them an individual song because it's just Rock Beat 2 with 4 chord Guitar riff 3 matched with 8th note bass line 1.

THE GOOD NEWS is there is no right way to do this. If you want to be in a band where everyone just wings it there are plenty available. If you want to be in a band where people toe the line between the two extremes a plethora of those exist. If you want to be in the almost exact recording crowd, well we got those too.

For the crowd complaining that live, bands don't even play their songs the same as recorded...they do almost always play the song the same way live from night to night.
A good compromise is learning live versions of songs.

The last thing I'll say is most cover bands perform the same songs over and over. If you've been playing a song for 6 years it shouldn't sound off when you play it; no matter if you're playing note for note or someway else.
Knowing something note for note gives you far more flexibility. You should be able to play with any band.
 
#91
DWBass said:
This is true but if any 'creativity' is going on, shouldn't it be a group decision? Not one guy deciding for himself that he 'has' to do it or he feels his 'creativity' is being curtailed!
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Of course it's a group decision. The group decides not to play note for note and everybody is always listening and reacting and adapting to what everyone else is doing. If one person does something cool, the others are able to create the right space for it. If someone is screwing up, the others can help cover for it. It's musicians organically creating magical moments.

Let's say you land a gig opening for a great band with an awesome guitar player. The guitar player says "Hey, how about I sit in on a song or two as a guest during your set?". How do you note for noters do this? Can you?
 
#92
I play in a trib band and the leader demands note for note implementation of the song. I am okay with it because no matter what I learn, it makes me a better player. We only consider "jamming" on a song if we have already learned it note for note first.
It is not my ideal situation, but I have become a much better player because of it.
 
#93
bassbully said:
We do "Billy Jean" with a fiddle and country it up and folks love it.
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invasion-1.jpg


BLASPHEMER!!!!

:ninja:
 
#95
DBCrocky said:
Let's say you land a gig opening for a great band with an awesome guitar player. The guitar player says "Hey, how about I sit in on a song or two as a guest during your set?". How do you note for noters do this? Can you?
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I'm in a band that does that all the time. It's easy because everyone just listens.
Knowing a song note for note and playing it that way doesn't restrict the player or the song. It opens up more options.
 
#97
DWBass said:
The difference there is.....everybody is on the same page as far as style, groove, note choices, etc. Not just one or 2 guys who feel their creativity is more important than the band! It's different!
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I think we're talking apples and elephants. 2 dudes in a band that want to "be creative" regardless of what the rest of the band is doing is not what I'm talking about. That's bad musicianship... and I agree... horrible when you're in the middle of it, hilarious when you're sitting at the bar or waiting in the green room.

I kind of figured that all the members of the band being on the same page was an axiom, but I forgot... This is Talkbass...

I'm just saying the "Covers should be played as recorded" camp can be silly. Stretch out and have fun with it... it's not a recital.

I think it's a continuum... on one side you have the "Dread Zeppelin's and Hayseed Dixie's" bands that play covers in ironic completely unrelated styles. On the other you have the "Fab Faux's and (insert band name derived from famous band's song title i.e. Pretzel Logic or Wish You Were Here) bands that cop the original artist in EVERY aspect... Those are the same kind of shoelaces Jimi wore, man.

My personal sweet spot is in the middle... the blues band that closes their last set with "Purple Rain" or the punk band that does a cover of "Cocaine Blues" They're all on the same page, but the band is making the song totally theirs, and giving it as a gift to their audience.
 
#98
DBCrocky said:
Of course it's a group decision. The group decides not to play note for note and everybody is always listening and reacting and adapting to what everyone else is doing. If one person does something cool, the others are able to create the right space for it. If someone is screwing up, the others can help cover for it. It's musicians organically creating magical moments.

Let's say you land a gig opening for a great band with an awesome guitar player. The guitar player says "Hey, how about I sit in on a song or two as a guest during your set?". How do you note for noters do this? Can you?
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Why would you assume that, simply because some don't choose to play the lets-just-jam-and-see-what-happens-music, that they can't improvise? My current band, for example, plays songs mostly note for note, but it didn't keep us from improvising a few blues tunes when we got a request.

Different crowds like different things, and bands adapt to that. The last thing the crowds I play for want to hear is a group of pseudo-hippies riffing over whatever Greatful Dead song they decided they liked that afternoon.
 
#99
I should correct myself... The Fab Faux is Will Lee's Beatles cover band that does faithful covers, yet not to the extent of The Fab Four, that wear neru jackets and have funny hair cuts.

For the record my dog looks like Ringo Starr, but I named him Geddy Lee.
 
#100
funkyebk said:
I think we're talking apples and elephants. 2 dudes in a band that want to "be creative" regardless of what the rest of the band is doing is not what I'm talking about. That's bad musicianship... and I agree... horrible when you're in the middle of it, hilarious when you're sitting at the bar or waiting in the green room.
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Actually, it sounds like this was EXACTLY what the OP was doing: trying to improvise when the rest of the band was sticking more strictly to the original version.
 

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