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Playing Without Looking

I play a no line fretless -- markers are on the side of the neck but none on the fingerboard -- your ear will tell you when you stray outside the box. Force yourself to look up and keep going; your ears tell you when you should take a peak. Or the electric lead turns around and gives you a fish eye... then it's time to take a peak. Just start not looking at home, and then take it public.

Hint: Call up some sheet music from the Internet then while looking at your computer screen play the song with out looking at your fretboard. Force yourself to not look. You will feel and hear when it's time to take a peak.

I see nothing wrong in taking a peak every once in a while, just to make sure you are still where you need to be. But, this is Show Buzzness, so interacting with the other guys and audience is a part of what we should be doing.

Good luck.

Thanks, I read tab because I can't read seet music, and I have been trying to do exactly what you suggest.

I'm going to do it more often, and your right - there's nothing wrong with taking a peak here & there.

I don't need to be able to play for hours without ever looking, but I definitely want to be able to look a whole lot less than what I am now.

Thanks again....
 
It boils down to muscle memory. I found that it wasn't helpful to simply practice not looking. What helped was practicing the same thing over and over. Eventually muscle memory kicked in. That said, not looking while you play is overrated :).

A great line to practice for getting comfortable with big jumps is the outro in "Stomp" by Brothers Johnson.

I'll have to learn that song, thanks......
 
As a singing bassist it is important that I engage the audience directly while singing. I try to break down each song (in the learning process) to the fewest number of position changes as is possible to perform the bass line. Whenever possible I will find a position up the neck (5 string bass...) that permits me access to all needed notes in a verse or chorus (in some cases the whole song) without changing (left) hand position at all. This really helps by reducing the number of times I must look at the fretboard. This technique often requires a 4 finger left hand style with a formidable pinky finger = a lot of practice...

Beyond this, practice more. I have gigged 41 years this year and still must look at the board for most large position changes, although common/short position jumps get easier over time and require less observation.
 
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Many, many years ago when I was learning to play fretless...............1976???...............when I bought my Fender Precision Fretless, the music shop owner (Westland Music, Westland, Michgian) he told me this........."Play it in the dark or else you will be looking at it that whole time you are playing. Your hands will learn where to go for whatever key you are playing in, and you'll know instinctively where to position your left hand no matter what." Best advice I ever got! Unfortunately, I sold that fretless back in 1982 to the bassist in the University of Michigan Jazz Band to get cash for my wedding.............damn I wish I had that baby back!!!! It had a brass nut and was set up by Pyramid Guitars in Michigan and played like butter!!!! ...........
 
I used to play in a band a long time ago, where we practiced the last 30 minutes or so in pitch dark. Just turned off the lights in the practice room. It was a little odd the first time I went through that (I joined the band while they were already in the habit of doing that), but found it to be a great excersise.. \\

It really weens you off the need for visual cues from the drummer, to look at the fingerboard etc.. I look back at that strange practice and realize it taught me a lot.

Regards
Mark
 
I could care less what people think of me when I look at my fretboard. I can look away sometimes for a few songs but overall find the crowd or other things can distract me not finger placement. Allot of famous players looked at fretboards..who cares.
 
Over the years I've learned to look without appearing that I'm looking...if that makes any sense. Quick glances when needed but never just eye-locked on my fingerboard. I don't need to look at my hands during changes that require minimal left hand movement. A quick glance when I'm shifting significant space on the neck and then eyes back up. And those quick glances can be done more with just my eyes and not with my whole head being directed at the neck. As others have mentioned, communicating with other band members is key and I can't do that if I'm staring at my hands.
I was in a band about ten years ago that used crappy bassless in ear monitors and no back line. On one song I had not been looking at my neck and when I did, I had been playing two frets off for I don't know how long.
 
I'm working on this skill at the moment so the replies are helpful. So far, it has come down to being totally familiar with the key in which I am playing and something (singing, reading, a game on the telly...) to distract my attention from my fingerboard. It does help when my wifey is in the audience as it gives me another focal point other than my fretboard.
 
Find when I'm in the Zone fingers are doing exactly what they're supposed to and don't give it a thought

When I'm bringing tude and baggage to the stage is when I have to watch what i'm doin
 
Many, many years ago when I was learning to play fretless...............1976???...............when I bought my Fender Precision Fretless, the music shop owner (Westland Music, Westland, Michgian) he told me this........."Play it in the dark or else you will be looking at it that whole time you are playing. Your hands will learn where to go for whatever key you are playing in, and you'll know instinctively where to position your left hand no matter what." Best advice I ever got! Unfortunately, I sold that fretless back in 1982 to the bassist in the University of Michigan Jazz Band to get cash for my wedding.............damn I wish I had that baby back!!!! It had a brass nut and was set up by Pyramid Guitars in Michigan and played like butter!!!! ...........

Your post is another reason why I want to become more proficient at not having to look so much at what my fingers are doing, although I do agree with everyone that has said it’s ok to look or peak from time to time.

I also own two lined fretless basses, and I find myself counting on looking for the “lines” the same way I'm looking for the “frets” and I need to train my brain to rely less on my eye-hand connection, and more on my sensory, ear, sound, note, feel connection.

All of the tips so far have been great, and many of them are things I’ve never heard before.

That’s what’s neat about forums, the sharing of ideas from thousands instead of a few…..
 
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I too am currently working on looking at the audience more- and looking less at frets and sheet music. My strategy includes memorizing the music to minimize looking at printed music. I also place my music stand to my left, in the line of sight with my neck. Then I don't have to turn my head or move my eyes much between looking at my neck and the music.
 
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This has been a cool thread, so I will add, that although we may think we do not look at the neck there is every chance we do through peripheral vision and stage craft.....it has just moved on to us not noticing that we look at the neck as it has become sub-conscious.

we are aware of where our hands and fingers are but we just do not register it anymore because it has now become a habit.
The same can be said for those long term players that look at the neck...it has just become habit.
The way to cure a habit is to acknowledge that there is one, we cannot fix what we believe is not broken or change what we do not know needs changing.
As such it needs discipline, the same applies to a change in any routine, discipline will work it out till the new changes become the new habit.
Un-learn the old and re-learn the new is what needs to happen, and if occasionally the old takes over then that is cool because we truly cannot always justify our actions as some are just reaction within our sub-conscious hard wiring.

But I will relate this story, I worked for many years with a great guitarist, who shall remain nameless, who never ever looked at the neck for any reference.
if he did look at it, it would be through it to look at something else. Different guitars, different tunings he played them all on gigs and recordings and never looked at what he was playing.....but, and this is the funny but, he would create all hell if a venue did not have enough stage lighting.

He would argue to the point of "well 'F@@@ it I'm not going on" if the issue was not put right. No matter how we tried to reason with him that he never ever looks at the guitar, his issue was "not the point because if I did want to look at it I do not have a choice." sort of reply.
I know realise after all these years that he must have had the guitar in his peripheral vision and was sub-consciously referencing it, which is why he would panic in low light or no light situations (no light is when techs darken a stage at the end of a song then bring the lights up, or just puts a spot on the main mic only leaving all others in darkness or low light.)

In all I would say looking at the neck is not an issues unless you make it one, it usually is one of vanity, in as much as it looks un-cool, than any valid musical reason. Another reason is posture, the neck and shoulder can develop issues being always turned to the side, over time this becomes a comfort position when playing as habit to accommodate the neck and shoulder rather than for looking.
The same applies to reading, many player do not put their stands at a correct height and distance. This cause them to 'crane' their necks forward to read, again not a relaxed comfortable position. if you part is to small, re-write/print it larger or wear glasses for the distance you play....reading glasses are not always good for reading what is a few feet in front of you, so a special pair may be needed to accommodate that distance to your stand.

Good luck with whatever anyone chooses to do, and if any of the points I have made raise more questions then PM me and I will help answer them if I can.
 
what's so cool about not looking? :chicken:

Chicks? Heh.. sorry for muddying up the thread on a great topic. Ahem..

reading music should do the trick-
oh and singing too.

I agree with tonemachine: singing along with what you're playing, no matter how horribly on both sides, was/is a great journey and playing without looking (mostly) was an unexpected benefit of this.

Thanks for posting this. Great food for thought.
 

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