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Playing Without Looking

#41
danosix said:
I hate to be the Jeff Berlin in the room, but why worry about this?
Instead of spending effort and time working on playing without looking - spend that time practicing something musically useful. The playing without looking thing is a hang-up people worry too much about. If you spend the evening staring at the bass instead of interacting with the band and the audience it is a problem, otherwise it's a part of playing.
Would you attempt to do carpentry without looking?
Do you Drive without ever checking the gauges?
Do you make love exclusively in the dark so that you are focusing only on the physical feelings?
Why would you deny yourself the ability to check your position if it makes you more confident in your position and thus able to play with less stress and thus play BETTER?
Click to expand...

I look occasionally, but when I'm reading charts (or unusual chord changes), although very musical, I have to watch the sheet.

Practicing reading is something very musically useful--- gets me gigs.
 
#42
Slevage said:
I look occasionally, but when I'm reading charts (or unusual chord changes), although very musical, I have to watch the sheet.

Practicing reading is something very musically useful--- gets me gigs.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. But that is still focusing on accomplishing a positive goal - being able to read AND play rather than a negative goal - NOT looking at the bass. I think, since the OP did not mention reading, that he is more concerned with the fear that he's looking too much which shouldn't - of it's own - be a real concern.
Of course being able to play while looking elsewhere is important - as you say it's impossible to read while looking at your bass, and you need to at least sometimes see the rest of the band for non-musical cues - but it's just one of those things that people think about too much as a problem within itself.
Also, while you rarely look at your bass while you read, I would bet that if you REALLY kept track that you would look at your bass at least (just a wild, shot in the dark guess) once per minute or-so. That's not a challenge or a problem, just reality. There are numerous cues for position and note, and the eyes are one of them. That's why we have fret markers.
 
#43
I started on piano ... keeping your eyes on the music was important ... but it still ' feel ' ...

maybe practice find a note on each string ... quickly ... like ' G ' ... find them eyes open and few times , then try with your eyes closed ... go back and forth with different notes ..

when you're playing in a certain position ... can you close your eyes and still see what your fingers are doing in ' your mind's eye ' .. ?

I would think the occasional looking is just fine ... but constantly looking at your hand seems like your ignoring those around you ... I think it's just a habit many of us start out doing at first ... some never stop ... I know many players , bass/gtr , my age (57 ) and older that still stair at their hands .. !! i'll still take peek when making bigger jumps on bass/gtr/piano .. ! I'd rather peek than miss .. !! but if you do miss , your ears should tell you to fix it immediately ...

and you really do 'see' a good bit more with your peripheral vision than you might realize !
 
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#44
I can play very well with my eyes closed. I do it alot. I can play well and look around the audience, make eye contact etc, I'm getting alot more comfortable singing and playing. I am now considering myself a backup singer. Lol.

I can NOT talk about something unrelated while continuing to play perfectly. I don't know why I can't. ...but it just won't happen. If someone comes up to the stage and asks/tells me something. .. I have to either nod or shake my head- because if I try to answer. ... instant train wreck!
 
#45
danosix said:
Fair enough. But that is still focusing on accomplishing a positive goal - being able to read AND play rather than a negative goal - NOT looking at the bass. I think, since the OP did not mention reading, that he is more concerned with the fear that he's looking too much which shouldn't - of it's own - be a real concern.
Of course being able to play while looking elsewhere is important - as you say it's impossible to read while looking at your bass, and you need to at least sometimes see the rest of the band for non-musical cues - but it's just one of those things that people think about too much as a problem within itself.
Also, while you rarely look at your bass while you read, I would bet that if you REALLY kept track that you would look at your bass at least (just a wild, shot in the dark guess) once per minute or-so. That's not a challenge or a problem, just reality. There are numerous cues for position and note, and the eyes are one of them. That's why we have fret markers.
Click to expand...

I definitely have to look for reference once in a while.

Though all of my current basses have some type of visual reference (frets, fingerboard dots, side dots), I have owned basses, slab and upright with no markings at all.
 
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#46
...edit isn't working for me for some reason. ..I didn't mean to just post the above.



ANYWAY the moral of my story was that early on in my metal guitar days, I made it a habit to learn long passages and complicated parts in the dark. This stemmed not only from wanting to have the licks stone cold- but also because we often found ourselves playing shows on peoples back porches with no lighting! Lol.

Its just practice. Muscle memory will take over after a while. ...just takes lots of reps.
 
#47
pacojas said:
what's so cool about not looking? :chicken:
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You look like you know what you are doing and you have more fun. But it also takes you to the next level: Be able to play when some well endowed young woman walks up in front of you during a song and lifts her tube top off.

Being able to play flawlessly through that is the mark of a professional. I'm not really kidding here.
 
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#50
static0verdrive said:
I don't get any fret buzz anymore - the pinky is in the correct place by itself (comfortably resting) 2 frets up from my index, so it's perfect to hit the fifth or octave (without looking of course, the point of the thread). As soon as I retired my ring finger I was able to play without looking and not get any buzzing or other awful noises from a misplaced finger.
Click to expand...

Cool and I got you now, yes that will work as a measured system against the forefinger, I cover four frets, so a m3rd, and that helps me know the options around me.
Another cool exercise along that line is a mental one.
Start on C (A string 3rd fret) and name the 8 notes around it, then go to an F (D string 3rd fret) and name the 8 notes that surround it.
Do it in your mind and do it chromatically over the octave C-C and F-F it will help you learn where the notes are in relation to each other and your fingers using the hand positions you use.
 
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#51
Couldn't resist ;)
poster,375x360,ffffff.u1.jpg
 
#54
Over the years I've learned to look without appearing that I'm looking...if that makes any sense. Quick glances when needed but never just eye-locked on my fingerboard. I don't need to look at my hands during changes that require minimal left hand movement. A quick glance when I'm shifting significant space on the neck and then eyes back up. And those quick glances can be done more with just my eyes and not with my whole head being directed at the neck. As others have mentioned, communicating with other band members is key and I can't do that if I'm staring at my hands.
 
#55
Here is some info on finger independence. Looks like ring and little fingers don't share a tendon but they do share "tendinous cross-connections" and a couple of muscles.

Link Removed

Of particular interest:

"In the hand, the fingers are coupled by the soft tissues of the web space, by the juncturae tendinum, which connect the extensor tendons on the dorsum of the hand (Von Schroeder et al. 1990), and by inconsistent tendinous slips that connect the flexor digitorum profundus tendons in the palm (Malerich et al. 1987). In the forearm, the fingers are further coupled by tendinous cross-connections between the flexor digitorum profundus tendons as they enter the carpal tunnel (Leijnse et al. 1997) and by the digastric arrangement of the flexor digitorum superficialis (Brand and Hollister 1993)."
 
#57
Most musicians look when they are playing. I saw Paul McCartney live a few years ago he looked at the neck quite a bit. When I'm playing a gig, I probably look about 20% of the time. I have always had the ability to keep the looking to a minimum. Even when I first started playing, other members of the band would comment that they rarely see me look at what I'm playing. It takes a lot of practice but it can be done.
 
#59
pacojas said:
what's so cool about not looking? :chicken:
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with whether it's cool or not as much as I'd like the freedom to look more relaxed & comfortable with the instrument.

I've always admired cats that could play well without having to look at every move they're making.

When you’re looking at your fingers through an entire set it sort of tells the audience that you’re either a beginner, a novice, or not as experienced as the other members of the band that are wailing away (sounding good) while communicating with the audience with they're eyes.

Know what I mean?
 
#60
shawshank72 said:
Here was my experience and it worked for me.
I played in front of a mirror.
I was technically still looking but it helped me remove my gaze from the fingerboard.
As time went by i stopped using the mirror and i just started getting more of the feel without looking down and i would visualize in my head where i needed to be as opposed to needing to see it.
Click to expand...

Never heard this tip or technique before but I have to admit it sounds like it could work...............thanks for the advice.
 
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