Please point out the red flag in my response

[Topkat13]

Just show up. Jeez…what’s the worst that can happen.

 

[pcake]

considering how reasonable the prof's replies were, it has occurred to me your email may have found its way to his spam box. a quick email to him "did you get my previous email? if my schedule doesn't work for me, i do understand, but i thought i'd touch bases with you" couldn't hurt.

of course, if his email is putting you in spam, it may do it again, and you may never know...

 

[sean_on_bass]

Suggesting someone learn 25 jazz standards who has no experience with jazz/notation/charts/theory is a bit much don't you think?

Never said he had to learn em all to participate in a jam. It's just a list to pull from.

 

[J_Bass]

Being busy doesn't mean you can't reply to an e-mail for 25 days.

Come on guys. Doesn't the "Professor" have a smartphone? Does he leave whattsapp messages pending for a month, too?

Really, he could be super busy to REHEARSE, not to respond to an e-mail. It takes 10 seconds, and you can do it while on the toilet.

 

[GretschWretch]

Being busy doesn't mean you can't reply to an e-mail for 25 days.

Come on guys. Doesn't the "Professor" have a smartphone? Does he leave whattsapp messages pending for a month, too?

Really, he could be super busy to REHEARSE, not to respond to an e-mail. It takes 10 seconds, and you can do it while on the toilet.

This depends on which account the professor e-mailed from. If it is his personal account, that's one thing. If it's his professional (i.e. campus) account, there may be blocks in place that prevent OP's messages from getting through, even into the SPAM folder.

This is happening to me now. Unless there are special circumstances for keeping it open, once I retired my campus e-mail account was closed and, by now, probably scrubbed. I have a former colleague who specifically asked for us to keep in touch. I have sent her three e-mails from my personal account. None have reached her, not even into SPAM. Probably there is a blocking software in place which neither of us knows about.

 

[King Harvest]

I wouldn't worry too much about the ghosting part of it. People drop off all the time... it's not your fault.

Funny enough, I've been in your exact position recently. Never been in a band but played by myself for years. I like jazz but have little experience playing it. I responded to a CL ad looking for a jazz bassist for a new group. I replied on a whim on the off chance that they would be willing to take on a member who, like you, is easy to work with and dedicated, but might need some time to catch up to speed. The guy called me, we talked about it, and we both came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be a good fit. So, the reality is that maybe you aren't a good fit for this group, but good on ya for putting yourself out there. Nothing coming from this opportunity might actually be an acceptable outcome, not a negative one. Anything that was a "red flag" in your email was going to come out soon enough anyway-- you may have saved everyone involved some time.

I'm currently being ghosted by a guy who posts every week looking for players for his bluegrass jam, so, trust me you're not the only one!

 

[DaveParker39]

I think the red flag for me here isn't in your responses, but in the dissonance between the "low pressure" idea up front and the high amount of front-end organization just to get this thing started.

A detailed lack-of-availability is always a red flag.

Riis

Hard disagree, especially if a band is going to be doing committed gigs and regular rehearsals.

Detailing areas that are no-flex, semi-flex, and full-flex is super important up front if a band is planning on gigging and rehearsing regularly. This was something fleshed out in full before I joined the band I am in.

 

[retslock]

You could speculate all day about this. Don’t overthink it. None of what you imagine can be proved until he confirms it. Stick with what you know to be true. Everything else is a waste of energy. Get on with your life until you hear more or you don’t.

 

[Lowandfat]

What exactly is not a "tall order" about asking a jazz beginner to learn 25 charts, that they don't know how to read, with no theory knowledge? I think 8-10 is far more reasonable for someone first dipping their toe in it. 25 songs for the level the OP describes is a HUGE ask. Learning some parts off videos by rote repetition is not going to do much to advance him as a player in the bigger picture, and familiarity with the material is a lot easier if you aren't asking him to learn 2 dozen tunes at once.

In my experience nobody learns jazz standards except through repetition. They learn how to work with charts. This doesn't really seem like a tall order.

 

[pepj]

You offered too much stuff you didnt need to.
A fine line but ultimately these things are about matchups in ability, experience and availability and maybe there was too much distance between yours and his..
He thought he had a better option..it happens a lot in music.
But...if he made the call for the above reasons, he would make it again and maybe at a point where you were more invested.

Forget about it and move on...if he contacts you again, take it from there.
If he is in the teaching game, he probably isnt as against teaching someone as other might be.

 

[Lee Moses]

What exactly is not a "tall order" about asking a jazz beginner to learn 25 charts, that they don't know how to read, with no theory knowledge? I think 8-10 is far more reasonable for someone first dipping their toe in it. 25 songs for the level the OP describes is a HUGE ask. Learning some parts off videos by rote repetition is not going to do much to advance him as a player in the bigger picture, and familiarity with the material is a lot easier if you aren't asking him to learn 2 dozen tunes at once.

Sheesh . . . the point wasn't that the O.P. learn all 25 tunes inside out before his first meeting with the guitarist, the point was to offer a pool of tunes from which he could choose to begin working on.

 

[COYS]

A detailed lack-of-availability is always a red flag.

Riis

I think it's better to give time slots when you ARE available rather than when you are not. Just like it's always best to say what you can do vs what you can't do, what you will do vs what you will not.

In any case I don't think there are any "red flags" about the OP. Maybe just someone who got busy or decided to ghost everyone.

Doesn't hurt to reach out and see if there's still a chance it could all work out

 

[mrcbass]

I do hope this is a joke ask, because pretty much OP's entire response is a red flag. IMO, all of this should have been disclosed on during the initial discussion. OP "knows" that he is hard to schedule, so why hide it until the BL tries to schedule? OP also correctly suspects that music notation will be involved. IF BL knew these roadblocks existed during the first discussion, he might have been willing to work with OP, at least regarding reading music. It's not rocket science. But the scheduling issues alone would DQ OP. Unless their working with retired folks, you gotta be available during "normal" rehearsal hours.

Ghosting would be inappropriate but I would have expected a "thanks, but no thanks" letter after that response.

 

[LBS-bass]

What exactly is not a "tall order" about asking a jazz beginner to learn 25 charts, that they don't know how to read, with no theory knowledge?

Because no jazz player I've ever casually jammed with has come in without charts to read. They don't waste time at home learning these songs because nobody expects them to. One of the fun things about playing standards like this is the improvisation that happens around the changes.

Treating this like a rock gig isn't really helpful. The other people in the band are going to come in with charts for all these and that's what they'll expect the OP to have.

 

[LBS-bass]

Because no jazz player I've ever casually jammed with has come in without charts to read. They don't waste time at home learning these songs because nobody expects them to. One of the fun things about playing standards like this is the improvisation that happens around the changes.

Treating this like a rock gig isn't really helpful. The other people in the band are going to come in with charts for all these and that's what they'll expect the OP to have.

BTW I should clarify that usually these charts are chord charts, not notation. So there's no reading skill required, you really only need to know how to move from chord to chord and, ideally, how to walk there. If you're a beginner, you might be learning the walking part but if you don't even know how to find C to F to G, you probably aren't ready for playing this kind of situation.

 

[pepj]

The BL will carry pads, and he will hand them out to the guys he has booked for the gig.

The horns will be written, but unless there is a distinct figure, the bass mostly wont be.
You centrally get rounds of A and B sections for standards.
If the BL wants to 'jazz' up a popular song, he will likely write it out completely.

 

[BassChuck]

I think the red flag was not being able to read music.
Remember, this guy just got done with a year of teaching and wants to jam. I'm guessing he doesn't want to teach someone the fundamentals. Sorry, but that's how I read this.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

Or maybe he is just one of those people that likes the idea of getting a group together rather than the actual execution of the plan. It seems like he pushed things back until after Easter and then after the semester was over.

Or maybe your time limitations were inoperable with the other folks.

 

[tri2bob]

I know some people will think this is foolish or a waste of time. I am also aware that things like this are posted quite frequently on this board.

That being stated, I still would truly value input on this matter.

Two months ago, I was browsing craigslist for band and/or jam opportunities (please don't point out that Craigslist is the red flag). My geographical area generally has very very posts, maybe one or two a month.

I found this listing:
Intermediate jazz guitar player in <AREA> looking for other jazz musicians for occasional jam sessions and, perhaps, some low pressure gigs. Horns, bass, keyboard, drummer, or other guitar players are welcome to reply. I enjoy playing standards, comping, trading off solos, etc. Again, very low pressure.

So I contacted the poster, especially tantalized by the last line of their add.

I received a response, and found out that the poster is a teacher at a nearby university. I explained my situation:

I am a male in my 40's, playing alone 14+ years, extremely limited band experience. More into classic rock than jazz, but just wanting to get out there and play. The positives are I own all my own gear, have my own transportation, and no children, so I have very few other commitments. I mentioned I'm going through a "Steely Dan" kick right now, that might be considered a bit jazzy.

He replied back:
First of all, don’t be intimidated that I’m a professor - I’m a <FIELD> professor not a music professor! And you are correct, just playing in a low stress, non-judgmental environment is the best way to learn. You can only play along with recorded music in your practice room for so long and then you’ve got to get out there. Being able to read music on a fundamental level helps. If you see a Dm7, A7, Gmaj7 on a chord chart and can find the D, the A, and the G on your fretboard, you’re halfway there!
I’ll be back in touch soon. Have a happy Easter.

(This email has all his professional info and a picture, it is easy to verify that he is indeed a professor where he says he is.)

A week or so later and a third response:
Dear <comatosedragon>, <P2>, and <P3>,
Greetings to the three of you. Thanks again for responding to my Craigslist post about a jazz jam session. It looks like we have two bass players (P3 and comatosedragon), saxophone (P2), and guitar (me). There might be a student or two at <COLLEGE> who would be interesting in sitting in as well. I have blind copied each of you on this email because I didn’t get your permission to share your email addresses with the others.
If everyone is in agreement, one possibility is to meet and play in the band room at <COLLEGE>. That would keep those in <TOWN> from having to drive all the way to <CITY>. After graduation next weekend, the band room will be pretty empty for the rest of the spring and most of the summer. We have music stands, amps for bass and keyboard, and a nice drum kit (if a drummer pops up). There’s also plenty of parking right next to the building, so there wouldn’t be much walking.
The college is in final exams right now and we have graduation next weekend. Give me a couple of weeks to get through this end of the semester “crunch", and then we can schedule something.
If you are still interested, would you all email me your preferences for days of the week and time? For example, do you prefer weekend afternoons, weekend evenings, weekday evenings, etc.? In the meantime, I select five or six tunes and make copies of the lead sheets for those who would like them.

When I saw this, I got excited and immediately sent a response. I admit, when I'm nervous I tend to get flustered or try to find something "intelligent to say".

I sent this message:
I think meeting and playing at the college is a good idea.
I work 3rd shift, so I guess I'm going to be the most 'difficult' member; but then again I am sure that I am the least experienced, so maybe there's an interesting dichotomy there.
I get off around 8am, so for me; Mon-Wed I am available from 9am-noon. Thursdays do not work for me. Fridays and Saturdays work the best for me; any time should be fine as long as I have notice. I generally visit my mother on Sundays, but I can make arrangements if the other members prefer to meet on Sunday.
I would like copies of the lead sheets of the songs you selected; that would be very helpful. Although I'm certain a lead sheet is written in musical notation (which I can not read, but I have to start somewhere I guess) I will at least be able to find online sources to help me figure it out.
I may even be able to find a song or two transposed for Rocksmith, which has been my learning tool for the better part of a decade.
Thank you

I have been ghosted since.
Obviously, there is no way to know someone's mind, but I am curious:
If you had posted this add and received my response, what is the red flag that jumps out at you?

Was it Rocksmith? My poor attempt at a joke? Or maybe he just knows 2 bass player is too many, especially if one is as inexperienced as me?

It just feels like his teaching background set off his spider-sense about me or something. IDK.

Thanks for your input folks.

IMHO jazz players like to play with people who are familiar with either ireal pro or at least able to read chord charts. If it were me, I would have found out if you could do that or not. If not, I would have chosen someone else.

 

[sean_on_bass]

I'd play jazz with people who can't read charts, but that requires they still know how to play the music and know the tunes, much like any other genre. But yes, if they can't read, don't know many tunes, and have little experience even playing the music with a group, then the prospect of gigging or even jamming with someone like that would be a hellish experience. I've yet to gig with a player who can't read a chart but magically knows everything else though, so that is likely a unicorn.