Please point out the red flag in my response

[Frank Tuesday]

What exactly is not a "tall order" about asking a jazz beginner to learn 25 charts, that they don't know how to read, with no theory knowledge? I think 8-10 is far more reasonable for someone first dipping their toe in it. 25 songs for the level the OP describes is a HUGE ask. Learning some parts off videos by rote repetition is not going to do much to advance him as a player in the bigger picture, and familiarity with the material is a lot easier if you aren't asking him to learn 2 dozen tunes at once.

You don't need to memorize the songs, and the bassist doesn't need to read the melody, just the chord changes. If a bassist can play 8-10 standards from lead sheets, they can play 25 with not much more effort. The hard part is learning how to play from a lead sheet, and you learn that with the first song. Everything else is familiarizing yourself with the new song and looking for potentially tricky passages.

 

[two fingers]

Wow. Lots of very strong opinions with very little context.

OP, the short version is we have no idea.

The logical assumption money seems to be on this guy was planning a Summer fun project and got into the busy season that is the end of a semester. I'm sort of in that camp. Give it a few more days and follow up.

 

[Doug P]

Too much info. I went to play with some guys I didn’t know many years ago being new to town. The guitarist that put the ad out was awesome. After we jammed on the songs we agreed to somewhat learn and we’re sitting around talking and come to find out he had never played in a band or really played with others, ever. I mean this guy could shred…. Pick a song, give him a day or two and bam ! I do mean pretty much any song in the rock genre. Rush to ……
He also learned to sing lead. Our vocalist didn’t show once and he said …. I know the words, I’ll try it. Again, bam ! We all were dumbfounded.
You never know what your really capable of unless put into a situation????
Anyway…. Sorry for the ramble, just don’t stop looking and keep it simple, just get to the first jam and maybe you’ll find out more about yourself and your bass.

 

[EarlTroutman]

As far as intimidation is concerned, I was asked once to fill in on bass with a group of Nashville 'professionals' - lawyers, surgeons, professors, etc. The leader of the group, The Establishment, was Doug Olden, who was CEO of Shoney's Restaurants. I never got any sheet music early, just showed up. Most fun I'd had in a long time. Laughing and joking, but everyone was a pro when it came to playing dance music. All their gig money was donated to I think 'Jerrys Kids.' No one every asked who I was or was I any good. We just made music, people danced, a lot of money was donated, and I HAD A BLAST. So I wouldn't worry any about being intimidated. Just show up, have a seat, and play that bass.

 

[Lowandfat]

25 random charts for a rank beginner is still silly IMO. Your suggestion is basically get enough of a grasp to fake it? I think that is weak advice for a beginner, and shows zero respect for jazz as musical art form. It's exactly this attitude that teaches people jazz is mailing it in behind a music stand.

 

[JimmyM]

25 random charts for a rank beginner is still silly IMO. Your suggestion is basically get enough of a grasp to fake it? I think that is weak advice for a beginner, and shows zero respect for jazz as musical art form. It's exactly this attitude that teaches people jazz is mailing it in behind a music stand.

It’s silly for a rank amateur but it wouldn’t be the first time it happened. Still, there are ways around it, and if you pull it off, you become a legend.

 

[Frank Tuesday]

It’s silly for a rank amateur but it wouldn’t be the first time it happened. Still, there are ways around it, and if you pull it off, you become a legend.

But once you can play from a chart, you're not a rank amateur anymore. It is a valuable skill to have.

 

[sean_on_bass]

25 random charts for a rank beginner is still silly IMO. Your suggestion is basically get enough of a grasp to fake it? I think that is weak advice for a beginner, and shows zero respect for jazz as musical art form. It's exactly this attitude that teaches people jazz is mailing it in behind a music stand.

Agreed 100%. This thread is showing that alot of folks are super ignorant as to how jazz is learned and performed. The player still has to study the music and style, like any other music. It's not just throwing up chord changes on a music stand and delivering a bass line via a formula. There's a plethora of musical vocabulary to become familiar with and execute/interpret.

 

[Frank Tuesday]

25 random charts for a rank beginner is still silly IMO. Your suggestion is basically get enough of a grasp to fake it? I think that is weak advice for a beginner, and shows zero respect for jazz as musical art form. It's exactly this attitude that teaches people jazz is mailing it in behind a music stand.

As people have said before, the person who gave a list of 25 songs, never said to learn all of them, and no one else has either.

All I said is that if you can play 10 from charts or lead sheets, then you've learned the hardest part which is learning how to play from a chart or lead sheet. Once you can do that, playing new songs is relatively easier. As with anything, the first is hardest, and each new one is progressively easier. Playing songs 11-25 is easier than songs 1-10 because everything you've already learned playing 1-10 can be applied to the new songs.

You're arguing against this thing you've imagined that no one has actually suggested. And as a reminder, the OP is looking at "occasional jam sessions", not a concert at Carnegie.

 

[sean_on_bass]

As people have said before, the person who gave a list of 25 songs, never said to learn all of them, and no one else has either.

All I said is that if you can play 10 from charts or lead sheets, then you've learned the hardest part which is learning how to play from a chart or lead sheet. Once you can do that, playing new songs is relatively easier. As with anything, the first is hardest, and each new one is progressively easier. Playing songs 11-25 is easier than songs 1-10 because everything you've already learned playing 1-10 can be applied to the new songs.

You're arguing against this thing you've imagined that no one has actually suggested.

I think he's pivoted to critiquing your way of dealing with learning and executing the jazz style. If you think learning to read lead sheets is the secret to playing jazz, you are so wrong. This music is best learned aurally, not from studying lead sheets. Lead sheets in combo jazz are a crutch for less convenient situations and should be considered a compromise, not the way. If that's the extent of your study you're gonna sound like poopie. And that's where you've disrespected the style. I wouldn't say playing any style of music is that shallow, and especially not jazz music.

I made the song list suggestion, but in retrospect i missed the fact that the player may not even know how to play the style at all. In which case further study is needed before that player could execute any of those songs properly.

 

[Frank Tuesday]

I think he's pivoted to critiquing your way of dealing with learning and executing the jazz style. If you think learning to read lead sheets is the secret to playing jazz, you are so wrong. This music is best learned aurally, not from studying lead sheets. If that's the extent of your study you're gonna sound like poopie. And that's where you've disrespected the style. I wouldn't say playing any style of music is that shallow, and especially not jazz music.

OP is looking at "occasional jam sessions", and hasn't suggested that they are looking to become a master of jazz or a professional player. They just want to play for fun. They weren't even looking explicitly for a jazz gig when looking they were looking for someone to play music wit, and came across that ad and thought,"Why not see what happens".

Jamming doesn't have to be a great intellectual experience, no matter what type of music. Learning to play from a lead sheet is perfectly acceptable to way to have fun playing music. And having fun is not disrespecting the art form.

 

[LBS-bass]

Agreed 100%. This thread is showing that alot of folks are super ignorant as to how jazz is learned and performed. The player still has to study the music and style, like any other music. It's not just throwing up chord changes on a music stand and delivering a bass line via a formula. There's a plethora of musical vocabulary to become familiar with and execute/interpret.

I would agree with that. But I would also say that, similar to that "learning harmonies" thread, these are things people learn over time, through various means, as they are studying jazz. Most of the casual jazz stuff I've been involved in has involved showing up with charts, not memorization. Reliance on memorization of songs just doesn't seem to be a thing in that world, which is what I believe most of us are trying to get at.

 

[sean_on_bass]

OP is looking at "occasional jam sessions", and hasn't suggested that they are looking to become a master of jazz or a professional player. They just want to play for fun. Jamming doesn't have to be a great intellectual experience, no matter what type of music. Learning to play from a lead sheet is perfectly acceptable to way to have fun playing music. And having fun is not disrespecting the art form.

But wouldn't actually knowing the song and the style be alot more fun? It would to me. Sight reading a bunch of lead sheets is not fun to me.

 

[sean_on_bass]

I would agree with that. But I would also say that, similar to that "learning harmonies" thread, these are things people learn over time, through various means, as they are studying jazz. Most of the casual jazz stuff I've been involved in has involved showing up with charts, not memorization. Reliance on memorization of songs just doesn't seem to be a thing in that world, which is what I believe most of us are trying to get at.

Well, my experience is that even casual jazzers know some tunes. Even sight reading a lead sheet is a tall ask for a newbie and will take years to be able to do and please your bandmates at the same time.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Depends on the gig. A lot of jazz musicians take pride in knowing the standards (in different keys), so they don't have look at the books. But certainly the ability to read opens a lot up.

When I was a more serious jazzer, I could sight read almost anything you put in front of me. I'm lot lazier now.

 

[LBS-bass]

Well, my experience is that even casual jazzers know some tunes. Even sight reading a lead sheet is a tall ask for a newbie and will take years to be able to do and please your bandmates at the same time.

Yes, I agree with that too. A lack of experience is part of the issue here. It's not likely the other players are going to walk in with the songs memorized, and they won't expect that of each other, but they will expect everyone will have some idea of what to do when they get there

 

[sean_on_bass]

Yes, I agree with that too. A lack of experience is part of the issue here. It's not likely the other players are going to walk in with the songs memorized, and they won't expect that of each other, but they will expect everyone will have some idea of what to do when they get there

In some circles i am sure that is true. But don't forget that there are alot of jazz standards that are not very complex and easier to memorize. If you can't memorize All Blues then you just aren't trying.

 

[LBS-bass]

In some circles i am sure that is true. But don't forget that there are alot of jazz standards that are not very complex and easier to memorize. If you can't memorize All Blues then you just aren't trying.

True. It sounded to me like the OPs situation was not a bunch of highly experienced players, since the organizer suggested any level of experience would be OK, so again just trying to relate it to the situation he's likely to face. Nobody will really know unless there's a session and he goes there, though. It could be a clarifying question for the organizer if he ever hears back.

 

[Frank Tuesday]

But wouldn't actually knowing the song and the style be alot more fun? It would to me. Sight reading a bunch of lead sheets is not fun to me.

Maybe OP will figure out that they want to get deeper into the language of jazz, or maybe not. Learning to read charts will help in any style that OP ends up playing. I've gotten charts on rock gigs, country gigs, etc and being able to play from them is a great skill to have.

I've never said that learning how to play from charts is how one "learns to play jazz". OP just wants to play with other people, and learning to play from charts will help him do that.

 

[Frank Tuesday]

...and please your bandmates at the same time.

Whose bandmates? Pro level players? Or an "any-skill-level occasional jam"? Context matters.